ITAR Compaitibility

[stephen_cholvat]

Just saw the news that Eagle is no longer going to be developed on and with be unsupported by 2026. ITAR restrictions will not allow files to be stored on the cloud unless those servers are ITAR controlled. Will Fusion 360 Electronics have an ITAR controlled version released soon, or should we start looking to switch away from Autodesk?

[jorge_garcia]

Hi @cncprogrammerer ,

I don't know what could be delaying ITAR compatibility with any level of specificity. It requires a bunch of development effort and investment in order to meet all of the ITAR requirements. This is also something that affects all of Fusion and is not just limited to electronics. As soon as I have more info I will post, as always feel free to reach out to bump the thread.

Best Regards,

[eric4XKUT]

This is now a 3 year long problem with zero progress. Maybe if Autodesk was bought by a larger company they can also neglect this platform for a few more years while they extract some more value for the investors. Lets be honest, autodesk has the resources to fix this problem. The solution just doesn't lineup with their plan to extract as much information and money from you as possible.  

[engineering]

This is not really true. The real issue is forced cloud storage.  If there were a project setting, that simply locked out cloud sync, on a project by project basis (with perhaps a simple password lockout), then the local storage ITAR compliance would be the responsibility of the client/customer. Cloud by itself is not a horrible thing, but the forced cloud default (tricky hoops to avoid) is THE problem. Lighten up on the cloud sync obsession, and this could be way way nicer.

[crossi3AEMC]

@jorge_garcia  is there any ballpark timeline or internal roadmap on when ITAR may be addressed? This year? 5 years? Never? We are considering CAD packages and we love fusion for many reasons, but this is show stopper unfortunately. 

[jorge_garcia]

Hello @crossi3AEMC ,

I hope you're doing well. There are a few ongoing projects for ITAR compliance but I don't have any official ETA right now. I wish I had something more concrete to share.

Let me know if there's anything else I can do for you.

Best Regards,

[csvanberg]

Being dependent on AWS or some other "cloud" service provides no direct benefit to customers, who can arrange for their own cloud backup and hashing the data.
This sees to be purely to hijack customer data and hold it hostage for whatever subscription fees that can be extracted, of which none have been used to to improve Eagle 9.6.2 since 2020, despite annual payments.
I see no "requested" customer benefits for this move. 

If EagleCAD which is a minor (10% ) subset of the Fusion code, and a minority of Fusion users who don't even care about Eagle, and if Eagle doesn't bring any added revenue, why don't you just Open Source Eagle, or sell it to somebody that appreciates it? User input, along with ULP's,  have always been a part of Eagle and has been the driver for continued improvements, in addition to annual fees.  Turning off access to customer own files is a real d!ck move.  Don't bite the hand that feeds you.

[engineering]

With all due respect, it does NOT require extensive development work.  It only requires a password protected "cloud sync" lockout function on a project by project basis. Leave the ITAR compliance to the customer/user, rather than having to build out an entire cloud ITAR infrastructure. Cloud is the problem, not ITAR.

[engineering]

Not having an ITAR compliant option (actually, just a CLOUD free option, on a project by project basis) before June 7th, is a serious problem for a lot of people. 

[engineering]

I have read the white paper.  I do not see where it clearly state that Autodesk employees do not have access to user/customer data without express permission of the user/customer. It talks about encryption for transmission and storage, but not about AWS encryption keys, and who could access those within Autodesk.  (Only that it complies with policy and such.)  It mentions "Locally, cached designs rely on the Operating System user-level permissions for access control." but this applies to local user/customer access only. 

[csvanberg]

https://www.autodesk.com/trust/trusted-ai

Your work with Fusion will be harvested by Autodesk for AI use, without any of your input. Expect your work to show up somewhere you least expect it, without credit, input or compensation. 
Sayonara

[engineering]

I have fiddled about a bit with Fusion, but I have not used Fusion for any real projects, ever.  This is entirely due to the cloud paradigm and for 90% of the projects that I do, it would be illegal for me to use a cloud based solution, or at least one that is not ITAR compliant. But regardless of ITAR, I completely agree that we can not trust the cloud "security" measures as being both secure and trustworthy. Data mining the totality of Fusion cloud data for AI training not only makes sense but it would be crazy of them not to do it, if they can legally get away with it. 

[scottH36AU]

The AI training is happening on cloud hosted data all over now. I have seen my private code from Github appear as a response from ChatGPT. I know it's mine as it's very specialised ASM, and the response even included similar comments to those I'd made. Basically anything you're storing online is fair game now.

[engineering]

Which would explain why Autodesk is so very reluctant to include a project by project "do not cloud sync" option/lockout for Fusion. They claim it is because of their "vision for Fusion" (which is a non-answer) but if the user does not mind losing the features that necessitate the cloud on a particular project, why should Autodesk?  I thought that Fusion was developed and marketed to have a product that competes with On-Shape. I would never use On-Shape for the same reasons. But if the real profit model is to data mine cloud data for AI and the resultant AI services ends up worth $Billions, then the real motivations are clear. I like the idea of Fusion, other than cloud. The interface even seems pretty friendly with a reasonably easy learning curve. 

[csvanberg]

"...It requires a bunch of development effort and investment in order to meet all of the ITAR requirements...."

No it does not.

Just leave 9.6.2 running, the customer will arrange for required data storage.

Zero cost and no development.

[jorge_garcia]

Hi @csvanberg ,

I hope this message finds you well. Ah, the joys of being misquoted, in the context of that statement I'm referring specifically to Fusion. Getting Fusion to be ITAR compliant requires development effort and investment which is ongoing. 

Additionally, keeping 9.6.2 running does entail a cost. Bitrot is real and as operating systems and ssl libraries continue to move on eventually EAGLE 9.6.2 would stop running without further investment. Keeping the authentication servers for EAGLE also incurs a cost. Now, is it a problem in the grand scheme of things? No, but it's not free.

I understand the frustration so my goal with these posts is just making sure the information is accurate.

Best Regards,

[aholtzma]

Counterpoint - the reputational cost to Autodesk is 100x what it would cost to keep the authentication servers going. Maybe 1000x. Huge loss.

cheers,

Aaron