Xref and Data Ref usage

[MHDCAD]

I'm not new to AutoCAD, but I am fairly new to Civil 3D.  I'm trying to understand what the best practices are for working with different references in civil 3D.  

Right now we don't do anything super advanced in civil.  Often time we don't even have surfaces in our projects. It's usually a background drawing of the areas we are working in, a survey file for things like our sanitary and storm structures then some linework.   I've been brainstorming what makes sense for us as far as the use of xref vs data refs but then I realized that I couldnt data ref my survey file.  With just points.  At least not that I could find.

I've attached my flow chart of what I was originally planning for reference.  The lighter blue are files that will get used only in certain projects, not every time. 

How is everyone setting up their drawings structure as far as xref and drefs?

[Joe-Bouza]

interesting

[Kevin.Spear]

Hopefully interesting good. 🙂

I should probably be more specific about my machine specs...
dell workstation laptop 7760
xeon 3.20 GHz, 6 cores
32 GB ram
nvidia rtx a5000 graphics card

windows 11

of all those specs, the ram might be the most influential to c3d performance.

[Joe-Bouza]

Interesting good.

As you said your setting were basically OOTB. Ours are too. We only look to the server for parts catalog.

The only real difference I see in the setup is the location of source drawings. We use the _shortcut folder to keep them in the object specific folder. I know that where the xml are ... we don't touch them.

here is the weird part: I went into the corridor tweaked it again , save and close. open the sheet and as expected it updated. How does civil3d do that without changing the time stamp on the xref? I ask because the next thing I did was open the xref and as I expected the corridor surface took a second to sync and display the change.

How is that explained?

Thanks by the way for sticking with me on this

[Kevin.Spear]

Joe, that is like asking to see the wizard behind the curtain... 🙂 I don't have that answer. I can only presume that the mechanism that updates a DREF in a dwg is the same mechanism that updates the DREF in an XREF only when all source reference files are closed. As soon as a source object file or source xref is open, then a source save would trigger a sync notification downstream.

I've also attached an image of the sheet file data structure for reference

No worries, Joe. It's fun to work out these nuances of C3D. 🙂

[Joe-Bouza]

hI @Kevin.Spear

I am not sure I came to agree with the Dref in an Xref updating. You are correct it does.

Working in a new system where a XBASE has all the other project xrefs ATTACHED, and only attach XBASE to a sheet drawing. Will the nested Drefs update?

Been trying to set up a practice file and figured I would aske first.

Thanks

[Kevin.Spear]

Hi Joe. I am just seeing this now. Sorry for not responding sooner. I have not tested nested DREFs before. I am presuming this is where you have an XREF with an attached XREF that has DREFs? How exactly are you nesting the DREF?

[jameshitt]

My own experience would warn against Data-Referencing directly into deliverable (sheet) files as a general practice (not that you can't do it in particular cases for specific reasons), simply because there are so many multiples of D-ref objects that all have to be maintained. If a style changes, it has to get updated in all those different locations.

I keep all Civil 3D objects in their own design files, then D-Ref them all into one (or more as needed) CAD file where they are styled and formatted for deliverable use, and any common labels added that apply to multiple sheets, and then that file is x-refed wherever Civil 3D objects are needed in the deliverables. This also has the benefit of keeping a very clear line between the "design" team and the "deliverable" team, giving less risk that people who don't know better will mess any 3d model stuff up.

Joe's experience is interesting; definitely curious about that. But the basic rough workflow that I outlined has worked quite well for me on many projects, small and (very) large.

[Joe-Bouza]

I concur. Chasing style changes can be a drag, and I do like the separation of design / deliverable

[Cadguru42]

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@Joe-Bouza wrote:

I concur. Chasing style changes can be a drag, and I do like the separation of design / deliverable

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I used a reference template on a recent project for the first time (also on ACC) and it works pretty well. I can update the template styles and they'll just show up on the drawings that use them.

However, they have to manually be updated if the drawing is currently opened, which is a drawback. I.e, Drawing A has a proposed water pipe and is open. I update the template pipe style, save, but Drawing A does not get a notification that the reference template has been updated. You must goto the reference template dialog and just click OK. It'll show the yellow triangle for it, so it knows it's out of date, but Autodesk has no mechanism to let the user know outside of that dialog box. 

If the reference template is updated and then a drawing is opened that uses the reference template it'll update on open, though.