Vehicle Tracking Incompatibility

[BlackBox_]

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@BlackBox_ wrote:

Hi @TimYarris - 

This AKN article is incorrect and/or otherwise unhelpful to Civil 3D/AEC Collection users: 

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/autocad/troubleshooting/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles/Error-...

With both C3D & AVT 2018 & 2019 and their current OE's installed, I am still prompted by this malarkey when a DWG saved in 2019 is opened in 2018... Even though I HAVEN'T USED AVT AT ALL.

Please correct me where I may be wrong - Exporting to AutoCAD (per the article) isn't a solution for C3D projects, and AVT *shouldn't* be writing anything to a drawing database unless AVT is _actually_ used to create content within the drawing and saved.

In my case, I've not even invoked an AVT command and hit <Esc> without creating content. AVT apparently just 'infects' every drawing saved, once it is installed... And that's not okay... It's disruptive to plans production, it precludes the backward compatibility we're supposed to have, it lends to drawing bloat (as it's clearly writing something to the drawing database), and it's just inefficient coding, frankly.

This isn't even done using a TaskDialog, so that a 'don't show me this again' checkbox could be implemented.

Please get this to the people who can fix this (if not your team) - thank you!

Cheers

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 Good news, @TimYarris -

Uninstalling all versions of AVT (and _NOT_ re-installing them) seems to do the trick - now I appear to have the Civil 3D backwards compatibility from 2019 --> 2018 as advertised.

No more pesky alert messages popping up when opening drawings, running a Script to batch process, etc. Hooray!

Please give the AVT team lead (perhaps yourself?) a warm 'Leroy Jethro Gibbs' smack across the back of their head for me. Haha

(I was going to include a URL to an animated .GIF, but Autodesk forums don't support .GIF as a valid Image format... back in 1999 okay, but In 2018??? Sigh)

Cheers

[TimYarris]

Hi @BlackBox_. Sorry for the hassle on this one. It's good to hear that you got it sorted out. I'll pass along a virtual smack upside the head to our AVT folks.

Cheers,

Tim

[BlackBox_]

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@TimYarris wrote:

Hi @BlackBox_. Sorry for the hassle on this one. It's good to hear that you got it sorted out. I'll pass along a virtual smack upside the head to our AVT folks.

Cheers,

Tim

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Me too, @TimYarris - 

Uninstalling AVT isn't a real solution, but a temporary band-aid (but you knew that). Point is, it's a lot harder to sell the owner on switching from Transoft AutoTURN to using AVT when something avoidable like this happens.

If it's not too much to ask, can you please also ask if someone from AVT can follow up here to let us know the status and/or a tentative ETA for the update that will fix this, etc? 

Thank you for both appreciating the levity I tried to include and for seeing that someone looks into this - hands down, the Civil 3D team does more than any other team I've had the pleasure of interacting with - and for that, I thank you!

Cheers

[Neilw_05]

I don't have any first hand knowledge but I speculate there was a change made to the AVT components of a DWG in the 2019 release which are incompatible with 2018 AVT. These components are written to the file when saved. Perhaps you can get by with the 2018 release until you no longer need to support that version. Then install 2019.

[BlackBox_]

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@Neilw_05 wrote:

I don't have any first hand knowledge but I speculate there was a change made to the AVT components of a DWG in the 2019 release which are incompatible with 2018 AVT. These components are written to the file when saved. Perhaps you can get by with the 2018 release until you no longer need to support that version. Then install 2019.

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No worries; the root of the issue is that no AVT Command was ever invoked at all.

All I did was open a drawing in 2019, save it and open same in 2018 to test backward compatibility. The mere act of opening/saving a drawing in 2019 with AVT installed breaks backward compatibility without even creating an AVT Object/Entity within the drawing.

I can understand there being a difference for AVT 2018 vs 2019 - although that is inconsistent with the backward compatibility claim in C3D - when no AVT content has actually been created using AVT Commands this issue should simply not occur. 

[Neilw_05]

I was thinking it is like the AEC components in a DWG. If you open an older version of a C3D drawing you get a warning that it will get updated and no longer be backwards compatible if you save it. I think the AVT is doing the same thing but you aren't getting any warnings.

[BlackBox_]

Correct.

Open a 2018 drawing in 2019 - no prompt - because (with very few C3D exceptions) it is supposed to be backward compatible.

Open a 2019-saved drawing in 2018 - unavoidable prompt without a 'never show me this again' TaskDialog checkbox - when it is otherwise entirely C3D backward compatible.

[DRW_CAD]

any update on this? It's creating a lot of headaches for us, especially for a version that' s been billed as backwards compatible. 

[wfberry]

To avoid getting this message try using this command:

PurgeVehicleTracking

Bill

[BlackBox_]

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@wfberry wrote:

To avoid getting this message try using this command:

PurgeVehicleTracking

Bill

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Thanks, Bill.

While that may work - even if we hadn't long since uninstalled AVT, sticking with Transoft products - I'd rather avoid additional manual steps for something that shouldn't happen in the first place.

It's been a long while since this thread was started; perhaps @TimYarris could ask the Civil 3D team to actually make AVT backward compatible (the way C3D 2018-2019 is advertised as being) && ask them to preclude AVT from writing to NOD just because a drawing is opened/saved (only writing to NOD when an AVT Command is invoked && AVT Objects are created)?

Cheers

[dgorsman]

@BlackBox_ - I'm not at a computer right now, so could you check on something for me?  Check the demand-load flag for AVT.  If it's set for load at startup, change it to on command invoke (or even no load) and see if that changes things.  If so, the flag can flipped back on when AVT is actually needed.  Gotta be better than a full uninstaĺl.

[BlackBox_]

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@dgorsman wrote:

@BlackBox_ - I'm not at a computer right now, so could you check on something for me?  Check the demand-load flag for AVT.  If it's set for load at startup, change it to on command invoke (or even no load) and see if that changes things.  If so, the flag can flipped back on when AVT is actually needed.  Gotta be better than a full uninstaĺl.

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Greetings @dgorsman  - 

Unfortunately no - as I attempted to explain to @TimYarris  back in June 2018, I uninstalled AVT & have since removed it from our AEC Collection (AECC) deployments.

Perhaps someone who has AVT 2018 & 2019 installed can verify? 

We've historically used Transoft products (AutoTURN, etc), so AVT was something new (migrating from IDSP to AECC) we were interested in... Until we tried it... and found how antiquated & clunky it was to use (as compared to Transoft products).

This whole AVT writing data to NOD just because a drawing is saved in 2019 malarkey was simply the last straw (of a bunch of them, for us)... If Autodesk isn't willing to take care of the basics, then why spend the time to leave otherwise well working Transoft products we're already adept at?

Much like Autodesk's shift from Suite-like installers to standalone products... AVT seems like a lot of extra work on our part just to yield same result... I'm not about that life. Haha :beer:

Cheers

[rkmcswain]

@BlackBox_  wrote:

With both C3D & AVT 2018 & 2019 and their current OE's installed, I am still prompted by this malarkey when a DWG saved in 2019 is opened in 2018... Even though I HAVEN'T USED AVT AT ALL.

Thank you for this warning.

As to the issue itself...

[DRW_CAD]

What I'm seeing and I'll do a little testing and then follow up with this but if I create a new drawing in 2019, don't use VT & then open in 2018, I don't get the message. Set to object detect, command invoke. 

But if I open a drawing that was previously started in 2018, save it in 2019 without using VT & no VT in the 2018 product, I get the error. 

It's a real hassle for us because we have a large client that's on 2018 & now having to send them dwg files with error messages popping up. Even if they're benign, they cause confusion and delay.

[rkmcswain]

@BlackBox_  wrote:

With both C3D & AVT 2018 & 2019 and their current OE's installed, I am still prompted by this malarkey when a DWG saved in 2019 is opened in 2018... Even though I HAVEN'T USED AVT AT ALL.

Ha. This finally reared its ugly head today. User swears that these file were not touched by 2019. I wonder if a copy+paste from an "infected" drawing could cause it also?

[wfberry]

As I mentioned back in February, try this Command:

PurgeVehicleTracking

Bill

[rkmcswain]

@wfberry - 

Please help me understand using the following scenario: One user ("Kim") is running 2018 and another user ("Gary") is running 2019.  Kim does some VT work and then Gary works on the drawing the next day (no VT work at all). Kim opens the same drawing back up in 2018 and get this message. If she runs the PurgeVehicleTracking command, doesn't it trash all of her VT objects? Or does it simply get rid of the "2019" objects that aren't even really there but that are causing the dialog? 

TIA.

[Partenheimer]

@Anonymous

My firm just came up against this issue on a new collaborative project.

While testing I found:

I did NOT receive the Warning in my C3D 2018 UNTIL I installed AVT2018.2.

I then uninstalled AVT to no effect.

I uninstalled my entire Civil 3D 2018 and then reinstalled it without AVT.

The warnings will not go away.

I have no other version of AVT installed on my system.

Regards,

Michael Partenheimer

[Neilw_05]

Our workaround is to install Vehicle Tracking on all machines but don't activate it. Make sure the versions are current.

[Neilw_05]

By the way, Bill, the problem comes back after purging if someone opens it with Vehicle Tracking installed.