Surveyor doesn't know shapefiles - trying to do the work for him!

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Surveyor doesn't know shapefiles - trying to do the work for him!

Anonymous
Not applicable

Hello everyone,

 

I paid a surveyor for a topo of my property and I'm trying to get a shapefile so I can import it into an iPhone app for GPS coordinates.  He's having trouble getting the contours exported and correcting the coordinate grid (he's never done it before).  

 

I've read online how to properly do it and think I can do it myself with the 30 day trial of civil 3d 2020.  What should I ask him to export so I can get the project myself and import it into the trial version of civil 3d 2020?  Do I ask for .dwg file?, etc.?

 

My hope is I can download the trial of civil 3d 2020, import the project, follow a few online tutorials of exporting shapefiles properly so I can get what I need.  I hate continuing to bother him when he's not knowledgeable for exporting shapefiles.

 

Any help is greatly appreciated!

 

Sincerely,

Newbie who wants data!!

 

P.S. I believe he's using Civil 3d 2014

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_Hathaway
Collaborator
Collaborator

Mapexport is the command he needs to use.  He may need to explode his surface before exporting to meet the technical needs on your end.

Also, if you did not specify this need in the contract between you and him, this is additional work.  Many surveyors don't know much about creating shape files which is why things like this are best arranged during the time of the contract.

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Anonymous
Not applicable

thanks Mike! Unfortunately he's never exported shapefiles before I had to walk him through sending me the .shp and .shx files.  He still hasn't sent me the .dbf file.  I'm starting to think it may be easier if I do it myself.

 

What should I ask for if I want to get the entire project file so I can import it into another civil 3d license?

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_Hathaway
Collaborator
Collaborator
Just ask him for the drawing files, all files involved in his work product. If it's just a topo and boundary it will be in 1 or 2 files depending on his structure. Are you positive he even set this project up on a state plane coordinate system? If not, it won't match the data you have on your phone. This is another contract item discussion as well. Even if he did set the project up on the right system his drawing file needs to be setup on this system as well. This allows the correct .dbf files to be created when exporting from Civil3d.
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ToddRogers-WPM
Mentor
Mentor

First off, the coordinate system HAS to be set before using MAPEXPORT. I don't recommend someone creating shapefiles that have never created them before. If you attach the drawing here, one of us can create the shapefiles for you.

Todd Rogers
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_Hathaway
Collaborator
Collaborator
100% correct Trogers. I don't know where the OP is from but If I had to guess, I'd guess that the surveyor didn't actually prepare the topographic map on Grid. I think this depends heavily on the surveyor's typical process and his location in the world. In many areas, the grid to ground difference is negligible but in others it is substantial enough to create a ton of downstream headaches.

mikeevans6697
Advocate
Advocate

Very true on the shift. Grid to ground in our area is about a 2 km difference in position north/south. What info you using on your Iphone? Not sure if 2014 had it, but there is an Export to KML in the toolbox. Again, the file would need to be in the correct coordinates prior to doing this.

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Neilw_05
Mentor
Mentor

Unless you are Ted Turner, your topo survey should not need to be adjusted for Grid to Ground scale factors except when setting property pins. There are free applications that will convert DWG to shapefiles so no need to use a trial version of C3D or Map. You can also download the free QGIS application and convert the file using it's DWG import tool. If you get a plain autocad file (no custom objects) you should have no problem converting it. I assume you just want to overlay your property on a GIS map, or are you wanting to set your property lines using the coordinates? That would be risky to say the least.

Neil Wilson (a.k.a. neilw)
AEC Collection/C3D 2024, LDT 2004, Power Civil v8i SS1
WIN 10 64 PRO

http://www.sec-landmgt.com
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ChicagoLooper
Mentor
Mentor

@Anonymous wrote:

What exactly does a surveyor for a topo of my property mean? It could mean many different things. 

 

What does into an iPhone app for GPS coordinates. It could mean different things.


If you want coordinates, such as points defined by X,Y or Lat/Long, then that's entirely different from a survey map created to display ground elevation.

 

A topographic map displays ground elevation typically with contour lines. Coordinates, on the other hand, are typically used to pinpoint the location of a single spot, or many individual spots, i.e., a fire hydrant, a tree, the corner of a property boundary, a building corner, etc.

 

When you use topo shapefile and GPS coordinates in the same sentence, it's confusing because topo  typically refers to elevation of ground whereas coordinates describe the geolocation of a spot on Earth.

 

So what do you really want?  A map that displays ground elevation or a map with points? Or a map with both?

 

If I were to stick my neck out and guess, I'd say you want points so you could put them in an app on your phone. You could then put aerial imagery underneath the points displayed on your phone so you'd be able to physically walk with your phone in hand to the spot on your property. If you want lines or boundaries, you could put stakes in the ground based on the points displayed on your phone then tie string to the stakes to represent those boundaries. 

 

If this is correct, a topo shapefile is not needed. All you need is a spreadsheet in xsls format, a spreadsheet 'saved as' a csv file or a list of points in whatever format the app on your phone can consume.  

Chicagolooper

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Anonymous
Not applicable

Thanks guys! I think @ToddRogers-WPM  is correct...the surveyor just didn't know how to do this from the beginning.  I'll get the .dwg files hopefully this week and send them up if you can convert them.  

 

@ChicagoLooper I use Avenza maps app on my iphone.  This allows GPS, path tracking, drawing on the maps, etc. if the map file I import has geospatial data embedded in it.  Thats what I'm trying to get...my topo survey in a geospatial file (which I can make if the surveyor will provide me the shapefile that includes the correct GPS information and terrain lines).  I'm hopeful I'll have the .dwg files this week and wil post if someone can help.  thanks!

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ChicagoLooper
Mentor
Mentor

So you want 'LINES' and not 'POINTS' as you alluded to in your opening post. The only reason I'm questioning is b/c the surveyor may already have coordinates of POINTS (or can easily provide you with lat/longs of points which will allow you to skip the LINES in shapefile format). If needed, you can simply connect-the-dots on your own with very little effort.

 

Points can be delivered to you in formats such as xlsx, csv, and txt, which are common and are easily consumed by widely used apps and programs.

 

Your surveyor may not know how to move from AutoCAD dwg to ESRI shapefile using C3D but he certainly knows coordinate systems and datum, afterall, he's a surveyor and he's more experienced in coordinate geometry that 98% of anyone on this forum, at least he should be if he's a licensed surveyor. If he's indeed licensed and can't provide you lat/longs points then you've been scammed by pseudo-surveyor.

 

BTW, if you have Google Earth Pro on your desktop, you can go to File=>Import=>Open to view your shapefile (or csv file). Once your shapefile is in GE Pro you can zoom, pan, even draw lines, and print your map.

Chicagolooper

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jmayo-EE
Mentor
Mentor

Ask him to send you an xml file of the surface. You can import the xml and do what you need.

 

John Mayo

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_Hathaway
Collaborator
Collaborator

@ChicagoLooper
You must remember not all surveyors work on the state plane coordinate system and even those that do typically produce coordinate values at ground, not grid. Many still work on assumed coordinate systems. This is by no means wrong and does not make them a pseudo-surveyor in the least. I am not one of those, we do all our work starting on a real world system. There are just too many benefits to not.

 

Since this surveyor is having so many troubles trying to supply you with a simple shp file export I suspect he/she is not working with real world coordinate systems.  That is just my educated assumption.

ChicagoLooper
Mentor
Mentor

That's why you want lat/long in degrees. Skip the feet, meters, international feet, chains, yards, miles or whatever linear distance you want. Lat/long uses degrees. Any surveyor should be able to convert from projected linear to  geographic lat/long.

Chicagolooper

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_Hathaway
Collaborator
Collaborator
If it's not tied to the real world the surveyor can't provide this information.
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ChicagoLooper
Mentor
Mentor

Whoa!! Hold on.

 

I'm not saying his current drawing is meaningful AND tied to the real world, I'm saying the data collected by his Trimble, or whatever equipment he used, is. That data, that you nor I have, but he has stored on his hard drive, can be used to determine Lat/Long. Afterall, he collected the data and he created (or used) a specific format. 

 

This is akin to dimensioning a building. It may be dimensioned in decimal feet, as in 60.5 feet, but you want a format in architectural nomenclature, as in 60'-6", which is the same length but expressed differently. It would be odd to say "I can't give you feet and inches b/c I measured the building in decimal feet."

 

Just because he has the 'data' and you don't doesn't necessarily mean it can't be done.   

Chicagolooper

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_Hathaway
Collaborator
Collaborator

Chicago, not all surveys are tied to a real world coordinate system. If they aren't, he/she cannot accurately convert it to the real world. There are many surveyors that still use conventional survey equipment without any ties to the real world.

 

For example, we have data going back decades.  A lot of the old data is setup in a Northing 20,000, Easting 10,000 type coordinate system.  If we received a call/job that was immediately adjacent to our past work we would most likely complete that project on the existing assumed coordinate system without any real ties to the real world.  This does not happen often, but it certainly has.

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ChicagoLooper
Mentor
Mentor

OK, I understand.

 

Just like C3D users who don't assign a coordinate system to their drawings even though they're creating surfaces, alignments and profiles using Survey Grade Data (from a licensed surveyor), that is tied to the real world. Got it.

Chicagolooper

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Anonymous
Not applicable

@ChicagoLooper @_Hathaway @jmayo-EE @Neilw_05 @mikeevans6697

@ToddRogers-WPM 

 

ok just to confirm what I should ask from the surveyor.

 

I'm trying to get a geospatial pdf so I can open it in avenza maps and it will show me where I am on the pdf (track my movement, etc.).  To do this, I found a program that will convert shapefiles to geospatial pdfs. 

 

He sent me a shapefile, however, the GPS isn't correct on it and there was only the outline of the survey (no terrain lines (contours) were included).  After emailing him back and forth, I can tell he hasn't had to export like this previously.  He's having trouble knowing the difference in .shp, .shx, etc. and he's not getting the coordinate system correct.  Since he's never created shapefiles, I'm assuming this will take him forever to wrap his head around it and get it correct for me.

 

Now I'm just trying to get the easiest exported files from him so I can send here to get someone to help me get the correct shapefiles so I can convert to geospatial PDF (or TIFF).

 

I hope this makes sense?  By using the geospatial pdf on my avenza maps iOs app, I can track my movement, overlay with aerials, etc., etc.

 

 

 

With that said, should I just ask him for the drawing files (.dwg) or .xmls?

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ChicagoLooper
Mentor
Mentor

There a multiple parts to a shapefile and you need a minimum of four parts. Each part has a different extension: shp, shx, dbf, pjr. They have different extensions b/c they perform different functions in you map. Of course, you'll have to add them to your map in order for them to perform. 

 

At this point, it's better to ask for all parts. You can filter, or discard, the unneeded parts on your end.

 

Saying the GPS isn't correct is risky. He could've exported with geospatial accuracy without him, or you, not even knowing it.

 

What city and state is the site located.? Are you running Civil 3D or vanilla AutoCAD? Or something else? Or you don't know for sure? What you're running makes a difference. What program are you using when you open the shapefile?

Chicagolooper

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