Surface automatically adding extra points

[joshDSFWG]

I'm designing a surface for a project and Civil 3d 2023 keeps adding unwanted points. Many of which I have deleted multiple times. My point style is just a croww, shown below. The extra points have cross/circle points - occassionally a square/ cross combo. How do I stop this or what is causing this?

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Running Civil 3d 2023 on Windows 10

[v-silvestre]

Those points must be getting into the build of your surface somehow.  If they're cogo points, they must be within a "Point Group"; acad points they'll be in your "Drawing Objects".  Just curious, but what exactly are those points and are they even needed in your drawing?  If you could upload a drawing, that'd help a lot.

[brian.strandberg]

I would double check the surface style and make sure these are not just displaying points in the surface.  There are various tools that will add extra points to the surface, such as a non-destructive boundary.

[Todd_Rogers · Accepted solution]

Those are surface points, not cogo points. You can turn them off in the Style. They are created at the intersection of the TIN lines.

[joshDSFWG]

They are definitely not cogo points. I created my FG surface by tracing the hand drawn contours that my boss marked up. I set those polylines to their own surface (magenta lines in screenshot below). The red circle/cross "extra points" ( ⌖ ) don't coincide with those. They appear to be interpolated points, but they return after deletion. My surface points are red crosses.

[joshDSFWG · Accepted solution]

After reading your response and delving into the surface style, I found the styles for those points. Apparently those are "derived points" & "non-destructive points" as shown in the screenshot. At least now I have something to search for to learn what those are for.

[sethBGGPC]

Josh

Did you ever figure out how to avoid creating these "derived points" when creating a surface? I'm creating a machine control for a job we're doing from a civil CAD dwg and these points really destroy smooth surfaces (proposed roads, slopes etc.). I had to go in and remove all the "derived points" (about 500) manually. 

[lance]

+1,

Any luck with this?

I don't need AutoCAD to put surface points in my surface for me.

[sethBGGPC]

I would think there has to be a setting that would prevent the derived points from being created. If I'm creating a surface model for a sitework job, CAD can add hundreds of these points that equate to erroneous high/low points for some reason. For instance, on the surface of a smooth/paved road. Points that if I didn't delete, the dozer blade would be bouncing all over the place.

If you go to surface style/display/ and make points visible, you will see where these are (points with circles). Then examine the surface in "object viewer" (right click-object viewer). You will see the effect these derived points have on your surface. 

Why does autodesk not have mods responding to these types of questions? The software cost should pay for technical support to monitor these topics. 

[joshDSFWG]

I haven't found a solution yet but I saw this forum entry recently that sounds like a possible cause: https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/civil-3d-forum/derived-points/m-p/2179715#M68057 However, We typically draw 2d polylines and add them as contours to begin our proposed surface with that blending with the topo from a recent survey.

[sethBGGPC]

After over a year I have finally found a solution.

If you are having a problem with Civil 3d creating erroneous "derived points" (the surface points as a cross and circle), make sure "minimize flat areas" is unchecked when you create the surface. If you have already created the surface, what you can do under the Prospector tab, click Surface/expand desired surface/definition/edits-and under edits at the bottom, right-click "minimize flat areas" and delete that edit. It will remove all derived points from your surface and you will be left with a clean surface that has no erroneous points.