Sidewalk extensions at Intersections. Is there a better way?

[davinatkins]

I've got a project where the main roads have sidewalks, and the alleys do not. Using the Intersection tool, my roads are more or less fine (I'm not at the phase where I need to fine tune transitions yet), but my sidewalks are being stopped at the curb return.

Because of course they are. I'm not surprised by this.

I've attached a picture of what I'm trying to do. The blue hatched area in the North West corner of the intersection, represents where I want to extend the main road sidewalk to the curb. I know how to do this manually, but I'm feeling lazy - and when I'm feeling lazy I figure it's a good time to see if anyone has a better way!

I'm not trying to model the actual slope of the sidewalk intersection, just extend it to the curb.

How do you approach this? I'm interested in different opinions. Thanks!

[ecfernandez]

Hi @davinatkins, would you consider adding a feature line and creating an infill and daylight for that portion of the sidewalk as a valid option? Or are you looking just for a solution involving corridors?

Regards!

[davinatkins]

That's basically the method that I use now. It definitely works!

I have 7 intersections and I would prefer not to do that 14 times, so I'm curious if anyone has a different method.

[ecfernandez]

I understand @davinatkins. I generally don't have to do models like this. However, thinking of your post, I thought of a possible way to do it with corridors by implementing horizontal conditionals. See the image.

The branch for not found would have the normal sidewalk, and the branch for found would have nothing, resembling what effectively happens at an intersection in which you don't need the sidewalk anymore. Then, another found conditional comes to place the dummy sidewalk where you effectively need it.

I uploaded the sample file so you can look at it. This proposal may need a few refinements to reflect your geometry more precisely. However, I think it is a valid option for you to try. If you check it, know that there is a linkwidthandslope that I have hidden here:

Let me know your thoughts about it. I hope it helps.

Best regards!

[Joe-Bouza]

I assume the side roads match except for materials.

1. Ignore the model

2. add a small region

3. Grade over the corridor and paste to a composite

[ektkamv]

Hello everyone 

I was facing a similar problem and i created custom subassembly’s where i connected the sidewalk of the alleys to the main road sidewalks using polylines to determine their length as you can see in the picture. Its really time consuming I was trying to think better ways to do it .

Does anyone have a better idea ?

[Joe-Bouza]

It is not exactly clear what the side road is doing? If I were doing it I would simply add a flush curb in the return. The pick up the curb ( if necessary on the side road)

[davinatkins]

I've never needed to play with horizontal conditionals before, I'm looking forward to trying this one out!

Thank you for taking the time to draw up a sample drawing. I'll let you know how it goes.

[davinatkins]

Good question. Both the main road and the side road have the same road construction, curbs, shoulders and daylighting. The only real difference is the sidewalk and different widths of the other elements.

[Joe-Bouza]

That settles it for me. So what are you looking to have a rendering of the corners?

I may be inclined to run the curb and let the detail take care of the rest

[CahaLF7RX]

hello,

we add an alignment at the edge of pavement and extend it 10 feet past each curb pc/pt

create the profile using the alignment and the FG for the streets.

this allows you to set a vertical alignment for the curb return - watch the ADA requirements

create your corridor, target the edge of pavement and center line for the other street

(sounds like a lot of work)

you can set your ADA path and it is correct!!

good luck,

nonbeard13

[Joe-Bouza]

I'm not visualizing. How is that different then intersection and curb return alignment and profiles?

[CahaLF7RX]

Joe-Bouza,

it is not different, 

when we create the vertical alignment, we have the ramp begin and end stations, from the alignment

and between those two points, we set the ramp cross slope for ADA.

depending on your design codes, you can have one or two ADA ramps along the curb return alignment.

the reason we do it this way - is somewhere in the past someone missed some cross slopes and the ramps did not meet ADA requirements.  so, get the check book out . . . .. .

hope this helps.

nonbeard13

[Joe-Bouza]

I don't meant to be dense, but if the sidewalk subassembly is set to 1.5 % or 2% as some may have it, how is this extra EOP alignment and profile doing what you want?

I can see the sw sub stopping at the PC and picking up at the PT, then in-between what is the extra alignment and profile doing? is there a sub assembly attached?

The way I read your description, the extra alignment is colinear to the main road from ped ramp to ped ramp. this may be where I am puzzled

[CahaLF7RX]

Joe,

you are not dense, sorry - i hold that title

ok a few attachments may help.

we have our site plan, then alignments for the streets,

then a corridor for the streets, we add a new alignment for the curb returns

add the corridor FG surface to the profile and we can see what the grades look like.

add a vertical alignment for the curb return and then create a corridor for the curb return 

using the vertical alignment and target the EOP and cl for the road.

ok, have to add another response to get more images

[CahaLF7RX]

section 2

[m_kingdon]

I had a similar problem with a large projects a few years ago.  The sidewalk corners were very janky and I ended up using the Grading Optimizer to smooth them out, but it wasn't an ideal workflow.

If I was to do this project again, and I wanted smooth, well modeled sidewalks, I would just run an alignment down the middle of the sidewalk and model it separately from the road corridor.

[Joe-Bouza]

Looks like standard operating procedure. 😎 👍

thanks 

[chriscowgill7373]

I like the horizontal conditionals idea, I've never thought about that, but even then it doesnt always work, depending on how the alley is being graded.  I typically fall into the logic of just waiting to grade those areas in the final grading where I can use feature lines to make sure my ADA ramps are doing what they need to do and then merge those models into my final surface models.