Rail Cant Example. Not possible to override the parameter values in the curved

durasovartyom
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Rail Cant Example. Not possible to override the parameter values in the curved

durasovartyom
Advisor
Advisor

Good afternoon.

We decided to ask you for help and answers.

The following serious question and problem arose:
I'm creating a design subassembly for the design railway of the AutoCAD Civil 3D 2017-2018.

By opening your Rail_Cant_Example.pkt examples from the Subassembly_Composer_Sample_PKT_Files_Release_2018 folder, which are located at the following link https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/autocad-civil-3d/downloads/caas/downloads/content/sample-pkt-...

The following question arose:
Why, when creating a corridor from this design, in the curved section of the railway track, it is not possible to change the parameters of this design in the curved section of the path. Calculation of rails elevation is made.


Also opened an example of the design of RailDoubleTrack.pkt the same situation. It is not possible to override the parameter values in the Corridor section editor, specifically for the railroad type, in the curved section of the path. And in a straight line there is this possibility.
And for the RailSingle design http://help.autodesk.com/view/CIV3D/2017/ENU/?guid=GUID-B2B2A0C1-2F62-4DFF-8A50-E59AEBFACDA6 this feature is available.

How to create the same design in Autodesk Subassembly Composer, in which will be possible to override the parameter values in the section editor of the corridor, specifically for the type of construction of the railway, in the curved section of the path?

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Screecast:

http://autode.sk/2hXwjPE

http://autode.sk/2ifM1cu

 

Artyom Durasov

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KMercier_C3D
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Advisor
Unfortunately SAC and cant rarely get along. I'm guessing this is a quick
that is unfixable in the current version of SAC.

As a proof-of-concept I've been fiddling around with the stock Civil3D
RailSingle subassembly making that into a pkt file that can handle cant
without using the applyAOR or cant API functions (and therefore work as you
are asking), however I will admit I know nothing about cant or railway. Can
someone who uses rail and cant help me with this knowledge:

1. In the Cant View is the Applied Cant at the upper inside point of the
rail (where gauge width is also applied) or top center of rail?

2. What is the most common pivot method if I was to make it only handle
only either center or high/low side in my first proof of concept?

3. I see in RailSingle that the rail is hard inputted values. Are these
standard? Would they ever need to be Input Parameters instead?

4. How does the Rail Slope input parameter and cant interact? Is it one or
the other or is cant compounded onto the rail slope?

5. Does can't effect the ballast slope or subballast slope at all or do
those stay independent of the can't slope?


Kati Mercier, P.E. | LinkedIn | AutoCAD Civil 3D Certified Professional
Pronouns: She/Her
Co-author of "Mastering AutoCAD Civil 3D 2013"
AU2019 Speaker::: CES321590: Analyze and Revise Existing Subassembly Composer PKT Files for AutoCAD Civil 3D
AU2017 Speaker::: CI125544: Analyze and Devise in Subassembly Composer
AU2012 Speaker::: CI3001: Reverse Engineering with Subassembly Composer for AutoCAD Civil 3D
AU2011 Speaker::: CI4252: Create Subassemblies That Think Outside the Box With Subassembly Composer for AutoCAD® Civil 3D®

durasovartyom
Advisor
Advisor

Good afternoon, @KMercier_C3D!
Thank you for the answer!

 

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Artyom Durasov

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durasovartyom
Advisor
Advisor

 

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Artyom Durasov

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KMercier_C3D
Advisor
Advisor

These are all very helpful! I will need to look at these more carefully to make sure that I am setting up the pkt in a way that is usable. 

 

In the very first image you shared in your first reply (same image as in answer.pdf), is d=Ca?



Kati Mercier, P.E. | LinkedIn | AutoCAD Civil 3D Certified Professional
Pronouns: She/Her
Co-author of "Mastering AutoCAD Civil 3D 2013"
AU2019 Speaker::: CES321590: Analyze and Revise Existing Subassembly Composer PKT Files for AutoCAD Civil 3D
AU2017 Speaker::: CI125544: Analyze and Devise in Subassembly Composer
AU2012 Speaker::: CI3001: Reverse Engineering with Subassembly Composer for AutoCAD Civil 3D
AU2011 Speaker::: CI4252: Create Subassemblies That Think Outside the Box With Subassembly Composer for AutoCAD® Civil 3D®

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durasovartyom
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KMercier_C3D написано:

These are all very helpful! I will need to look at these more carefully to make sure that I am setting up the pkt in a way that is usable. 

 

In the very first image you shared in your first reply (same image as in answer.pdf), is d=Ca?


Yes -
d=Ca = h

911.png

 

Artyom Durasov

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durasovartyom
Advisor
Advisor

I found a very useful reference.

Materials in the enclosure

LFLSRM-Fundamentals-of-Railway-Curve-Superelevation-current

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Artyom Durasov

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KMercier_C3D
Advisor
Advisor
  1. Is ballast shoulder measured aligned with the cant slope or horizontally?
  2. When there is no cant, does the ballast shoulder have no slope?
  3. Is subballast shoulder measures aligned with the subballst slope or horizontally?
  4. Is the sleeper depth measure vertically or perpendicular to the cant slope?
  5. Where is the ballast depth measured at and is it a vertical dimension?
  6. Is the subballast depth measured perpendicular to the subballast slope or vertically?
  7. Is the cant deflection (Ca, d, h) measured from the track width location (center of rails) or the gauge width (inside dimension between top of rails?
  8. Which is more commonly defined as an input parameter: track width or gauge width?

image.pngimage.png

image.png



Kati Mercier, P.E. | LinkedIn | AutoCAD Civil 3D Certified Professional
Pronouns: She/Her
Co-author of "Mastering AutoCAD Civil 3D 2013"
AU2019 Speaker::: CES321590: Analyze and Revise Existing Subassembly Composer PKT Files for AutoCAD Civil 3D
AU2017 Speaker::: CI125544: Analyze and Devise in Subassembly Composer
AU2012 Speaker::: CI3001: Reverse Engineering with Subassembly Composer for AutoCAD Civil 3D
AU2011 Speaker::: CI4252: Create Subassemblies That Think Outside the Box With Subassembly Composer for AutoCAD® Civil 3D®

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durasovartyom
Advisor
Advisor

Good afternoon, @KMercier_C3D!

 

1. Ballast measured - horizontally.

2. Yes.

3. Horizontally.

4. Vertically.

 

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6. Vertically.

7.

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8. track width

Artyom Durasov

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KMercier_C3D
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Advisor
Accepted solution

All right, attached is version 1.0 of the rail cant pkt file that I made. As I mentioned earlier, I was trying to avoid using the SAC cant because it seems to be causing the issues. Therefore this subassembly does take a few extra steps than normal so maybe it won't be as efficient for your workflow but if/when the cant starts working better in SAC then this pkt file should be easily revise-able to just change the "Cant Calculation" flowchart element and remove the need for targeting the Ca values and everything else should remain functional. 

 

The extra steps that this subassembly requires are that you would make your Rail alignment per normal and run the Cant Wizard per normal (unless that is something you can calculate by hand or in a different application) and note down what all the cant values area and then (this is where the extra steps are!) you need to make another alignment on the exact same location and set it as a Centerline alignment instead of a Rail alignment and then make two new profiles along the alignment that defines the cant deflection for the left and right rails (these profiles are NOT elevation but instead represent the delta elevation, Ca, just like in a Cant View). Next, when you make your corridor you will need to target this Centerline alignment and its left and right profiles. (Note that for a center pivot this would simplify to one profile, either the left or the right as the other could be inferred from only defining one.) .... If you did not want to use the Parameter Editor in the cant areas you could use this same method with the left and right profiles and not need to make a Centerline alignment. For some unknown to me reason the Parameter Editor does not seem to work in cant areas with the pkt files even if you don't need to reference the cant (unless there is something I'm missing...)

 

Here is some images of the procedure: 

 

Create left cant profile (Profile->Profile Creation Tools) and insert PVI's tabular

image.png

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Create right cant profile (Profile->Profile Creation Tools) and insert PVI's tabular

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You should now have the original cant view and a profile view showing the cant: 

image.png

 

Now insert the attached rail pkt file and make an assembly from it and set your default input parameters:

image.png

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Now when you make your corridor you need to target your Cant Delta Profiles in order to obtain the cant data: 

 

image.pngimage.png

 

 

[In the attached .dwg file I have the Cant profiles on both the rail alignment and the centerline alignment because I was testing to see which would work better. If I am correct that using the rail alignment for the corridor prevents the use of the Parameter Editor then those two profiles could be deleted from that alignment to prevent confusion. There is of course some loss of dynamic-ness from this method as if you rerun the cant wizard you would need to remember to also change the values in your two cant profiles.]

 



Kati Mercier, P.E. | LinkedIn | AutoCAD Civil 3D Certified Professional
Pronouns: She/Her
Co-author of "Mastering AutoCAD Civil 3D 2013"
AU2019 Speaker::: CES321590: Analyze and Revise Existing Subassembly Composer PKT Files for AutoCAD Civil 3D
AU2017 Speaker::: CI125544: Analyze and Devise in Subassembly Composer
AU2012 Speaker::: CI3001: Reverse Engineering with Subassembly Composer for AutoCAD Civil 3D
AU2011 Speaker::: CI4252: Create Subassemblies That Think Outside the Box With Subassembly Composer for AutoCAD® Civil 3D®

durasovartyom
Advisor
Advisor

Good afternoon, @KMercier_C3D!


Thank you for supporting and helping on such an important issue!
A lot of interesting moments for myself I saw.
I am glad to cooperate with you!

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Artyom Durasov

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KMercier_C3D
Advisor
Advisor

@durasovartyom, I am glad to cooperate with you as well. It is a fun challenge and taught me things about rail that I've never known before. It is funny that you comment about that error in how the sleeper is shaped as I had it that shape/angle originally and then based on some of the images you shared and your response to #4 of my lastest set of questions I changed it to measure (and align the edge) of the sleeper vertically instead of perpendicular to the cant slope. Even with the edge perpendicular to the cant slope is the dimension still measure along that tilted edge or is it supposed to be vertically as you had answered?  



Kati Mercier, P.E. | LinkedIn | AutoCAD Civil 3D Certified Professional
Pronouns: She/Her
Co-author of "Mastering AutoCAD Civil 3D 2013"
AU2019 Speaker::: CES321590: Analyze and Revise Existing Subassembly Composer PKT Files for AutoCAD Civil 3D
AU2017 Speaker::: CI125544: Analyze and Devise in Subassembly Composer
AU2012 Speaker::: CI3001: Reverse Engineering with Subassembly Composer for AutoCAD Civil 3D
AU2011 Speaker::: CI4252: Create Subassemblies That Think Outside the Box With Subassembly Composer for AutoCAD® Civil 3D®

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Mike.M.Carlson
Advisor
Advisor

Thank you both for this wonderful thread!  




Michael M. Carlson
Senior Civil Designer
CADD Manager
AutoCAD Civil 3D Professional
AutoCAD Professional

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We use Wunderkind to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by Wunderkind. Ads are based on both Wunderkind data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that Wunderkind has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to Wunderkind to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. Wunderkind Privacy Policy
ADC Media
We use ADC Media to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by ADC Media. Ads are based on both ADC Media data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that ADC Media has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to ADC Media to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. ADC Media Privacy Policy
AgrantSEM
We use AgrantSEM to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by AgrantSEM. Ads are based on both AgrantSEM data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that AgrantSEM has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to AgrantSEM to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. AgrantSEM Privacy Policy
Bidtellect
We use Bidtellect to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by Bidtellect. Ads are based on both Bidtellect data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that Bidtellect has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to Bidtellect to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. Bidtellect Privacy Policy
Bing
We use Bing to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by Bing. Ads are based on both Bing data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that Bing has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to Bing to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. Bing Privacy Policy
G2Crowd
We use G2Crowd to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by G2Crowd. Ads are based on both G2Crowd data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that G2Crowd has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to G2Crowd to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. G2Crowd Privacy Policy
NMPI Display
We use NMPI Display to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by NMPI Display. Ads are based on both NMPI Display data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that NMPI Display has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to NMPI Display to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. NMPI Display Privacy Policy
VK
We use VK to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by VK. Ads are based on both VK data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that VK has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to VK to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. VK Privacy Policy
Adobe Target
We use Adobe Target to test new features on our sites and customize your experience of these features. To do this, we collect behavioral data while you’re on our sites. This data may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, your IP address or device ID, your Autodesk ID, and others. You may experience a different version of our sites based on feature testing, or view personalized content based on your visitor attributes. Adobe Target Privacy Policy
Google Analytics (Advertising)
We use Google Analytics (Advertising) to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by Google Analytics (Advertising). Ads are based on both Google Analytics (Advertising) data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that Google Analytics (Advertising) has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to Google Analytics (Advertising) to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. Google Analytics (Advertising) Privacy Policy
Trendkite
We use Trendkite to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by Trendkite. Ads are based on both Trendkite data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that Trendkite has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to Trendkite to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. Trendkite Privacy Policy
Hotjar
We use Hotjar to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by Hotjar. Ads are based on both Hotjar data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that Hotjar has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to Hotjar to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. Hotjar Privacy Policy
6 Sense
We use 6 Sense to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by 6 Sense. Ads are based on both 6 Sense data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that 6 Sense has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to 6 Sense to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. 6 Sense Privacy Policy
Terminus
We use Terminus to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by Terminus. Ads are based on both Terminus data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that Terminus has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to Terminus to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. Terminus Privacy Policy
StackAdapt
We use StackAdapt to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by StackAdapt. Ads are based on both StackAdapt data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that StackAdapt has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to StackAdapt to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. StackAdapt Privacy Policy
The Trade Desk
We use The Trade Desk to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by The Trade Desk. Ads are based on both The Trade Desk data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that The Trade Desk has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to The Trade Desk to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. The Trade Desk Privacy Policy
RollWorks
We use RollWorks to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by RollWorks. Ads are based on both RollWorks data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that RollWorks has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to RollWorks to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. RollWorks Privacy Policy

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