How to best organize files and use data references for performance?

[paul47WXW]

Hello everybody,

 I am working as a junior CAD technician under the direction of a civil engineer who focuses on drainage projects. I would like to know how best to approach the structuring of files and data in a project where we are creating plan and profile drawings for 6 kilometers of drainage ditch. 

Given the size of the drain, I am expecting a total of 15 plots to be made (11 sheets showing profiles, 3 different plan views showing the drainage system, and a location map). Typically, our projects have everything in one file (alignment, profile, topo, surface and layouts), but my boss has instructed me to have all layouts to be plotted in a different file, and xref the model containing the alignments, profiles, linework and profile views.  

I've rarely worked with xrefs and data references, so my interpretation so far has been to create the model file with all the profile views, labels, and line work, and xref this into a layout file. In the layout file, I then turn on and off layers to suit the particular plot I'm making. This first attempt is still causing lag in the file with my layouts.

Upon reading previous posts, I think there is support in data referencing the profiles and alignment from the model file, and only creating the profile views in the reference file where I will create my layouts. I suspect the files I will have are:

1 Master model (contains alignment and profiles, topo, surfaces and linework)

2. Sheet with layout tabs for profile views (how many is too much per dwg file?)

3. Sheet with plan views and location plan

What would you recommend is the optimal way to organize the files and layouts to preserve performance?

Ultimately, I want to get the organization of these files right from the start so ACAD doesn't lock up on us and so I don't paint myself into a corner and have to rework everything to make it usable again.

Thanks in advance for your kind assistance.

Paul

[JoeKidd33]

We follow the following guidelines for large project setup. 

Xref drawings:

TPO-this is the existing conditions picked up by survey

ROW-contains Righ-of-way, parcels, easements and parcel information

C3D-contains alignments, full length profile views with existing and proposed profiles, and corridors. alignments, proposed profiles and proposed surface from the corridor are data shortcut into the BSE file outlined next.

BSE-proposed linework, pipe and pressure networks, profile views separated by sheet stationing

G3D-existing surface, grading objects and proposed surfaces using grading and feature lines. Surfaces are data shortcut into the BSE file.

TPO, ROW and BSE are xref'd into sheet files. We recommend users limit sheet files to 4 layout tabs. 

This process has worked well for us in managing the files and allowing for multiple users to be on the project at one time. 

[paul47WXW]

I appreciate the response. Reading responses from other forums, it seems everyone does things differently depending on how complex the projects are and how many cooks need to be in the kitchen. I think to get this right, I'll need to understand how autocad works under the hood to make decisions on how to set up this hierarchy of references, while keeping the file system simple. 

For instance, your profile itself is data linked to a second file with your sheet stationed profile views, which is then xrefd to the sheet containing your plot layouts. Does chaining the files in that way mean Acad has less to load, so it's more responsive? Also, does that allow designers to work simultaneously on different levels of the hierarchy? I know for us with everything jammed in one file, we can't simultaneously work on it - although I never foresee the company I work for every being bigger than 1 drafter and 1 engineer so I think having the ability for multiple people to work on the project simultaneously can be sacrificed for a simpler file structure.

Once again, thank you for taking the time to respond. I really appreciate your generosity in helping a stranger.

Paul

[JoeKidd33]

Our reason for data shortcutting the profiles from the C3d drawing to the BSE is to allow an engineer to make design changes to a profile while a technician or other engineer is drawing proposed linework in the bse. We use this same approach for all projects, even small projects that only have one person. We have found that many jobs that start out small often have the scope expanded and thus require additional staff. We found it better to use the same method each time. I have not noticed a speed difference with profiles using data shortcuts vs having everything in one drawing. We do notice an efficiency with corridors. Data shortcutting only the proposed surface from corridor keeps all of the sample lines, and section views out of the bse and makes for a cleaner, faster drawing. 

[Cadguru42]

Best practice and what Autodesk has designed C3D to do is to have a drawing for each of your C3D data sources. I.e., a drawing for existing ground surface, a drawing for alignments/profiles, a drawing for pipe networks (depends on size of network whether to split into individual drawings for each network or not), a drawing for corridors, etc. These are C3D drawings that are the sources of the data shortcuts to be used in other files and NOT to be XREF'd. The styles in these drawings are more for the designer's preferences and not for plan production. For example, I like to have a design alignment style where the tangents, curves, and spirals are different colors, PT & PC points are shown, etc. while the plan production (depends on project standards) might have a single, bold line for the alignment and no markers for the PT & PC. 

Then you have drawings that are to be XREF'd into sheets for plan production. These can contain DREF's of the C3D objects and/or 2D plan work (i.e., proposed roadway layout, details, etc.). These are the drawings where you use styles & labels for your objects that you want the plans to look like.

And lastly, you can have sheet files. This can be dictated by a jurisdiction or personal preference. Some places like to have a single drawing per sheet while others like to group them. I don't recommend having more than 10 layouts in a single drawing if you do it this way, but it kind of depends on how well your system is. I've done 15 without much issue on complex drawings, but others working on the files complained. 

The added advantage of having multiple drawings like this is when a C3D drawing inevitably becomes corrupt you don't lose near as much as having a bunch of stuff in a single drawing. It also dramatically speeds up working on the project when data shortcuts are used. 

[paul47WXW]

Thank you. This is great information.

[paul47WXW]

Thank you for this input.

So with this project, I need to make multiple profile views. If I understand these posts correctly, a good approach would be to have files set up as follows:

1. Files containing data sources (profiles, alignments, existing surfaces) ----> DREF these into item 2

2. File where I will make my multiple profile views, create my linework (watersheds, parcels, roads, etc etc) ----> xref into item 3

3. Layout drawings where I have my fancy title block and labels.

What about label objects, such as the built-in labels you can have in profile views? Which level in this stack would I create those? 

So I think then I will need to make another file template for containing these C3D objects (surface, alignments, profiles etc). This file template I suppose should be as stripped down as possible with styles, layers, etc  to optimize performance. 

I think another thing that is the issue is that I only run 16GB of ram and I see the recommendation in 32GB... Are people running with even more than what is recommended? I work on a paving stone sized laptop that can add another 16GB but that's it. (32GB total). 

Thank you so much for generously providing your time and advice. Thank you 🙂

[JoeKidd33 · Accepted solution]

Your proposed drawing organization is correct with what we have found to be best practices. Your profile view labels would go in your level 2 drawing. This would be the case for any labels to objects that need to be on your final plan such as alignment stationing. In many cases you will also want those labels in the level 1 drawing as well for design purposes. 

We run a minimum of 32 gb of ram in production systems. A few of our field staff run 16 gb and have issues running Autocad on the larger projects. It can be done, but is noticeable and often results in the user frustrated until we replace the computer. 

[paul47WXW]

Fantastic! I appreciate the information and your time to generously help me out. Thank you.