DEM coming in shifted! Ortho Image not correctly placed

[Anonymous]

US Survey Ft State Plane NAD83 the Ortho Image comes in proper using MAPIINSERT command, but then I bring in my DEM from the prospector tab using contour from DEM it comes if FEET shifted. PLEASE HELP. Expensive software and its pure trash. Very frustrating Autodesk! How do I get this on proper units! 

[Anonymous]

I figured it out, you guys have known about this problem over 5 YEARS from other posts in forums yet sit on your hands and do nothing! 

Solution>switch your units to international feet then import then switch it back over to US SURVEY feet after importing. seems to work. Its US Survey Feet/international feet issue. Farther north you go if you are on State Plane, farther the shift you will be, 2 parts per million. 

What a JOKE! Should not have to do this. 

[Anonymous]

Solution;

Set units to International Feet>go to prospector tab,>"Create surface from DEM" then switch it back to US Survey Feet, then import your Drone Image with MAPIINSERT command.

Complete Joke, this is unbelievable. 

Thanks for nothing. 2 days to get a call from Autodesk. Clients will be sending us down the road when we dont deliver. Keep sitting on your hands autodesk, great work. Maybe I can get a fatal error today that would be great too. 

[ChicagoLooper]

Is the DEM available to the public for download? What is the URL? Please post the link and the name of the guilty DEM. Thanks.  

[Anonymous]

No, a DEM is a Digital Elevation Model. I create it from a Dense Point Cloud. 

[ChicagoLooper]

If you created the DEM then you gave it international feet. You should’ve gave it US survey feet instead.

International feet doesn’t occur RANDOMLY.  If it was then why not random meters? Or random yards? Or random inches or millimeters? 

Did you use Recap? If you did, you can set units there so when you bring it into your drawing it plops down accurately. 

[Anonymous]

With all due respect you have no clue what you are even talking about. The DEM was created on the SAME EXACT units as the Orthomosaic Image, US SURVEY FEET, CA State Plane Zone 6. The Orthomosaic Image comesin perfectly, HOWEVER the DEM (Created in the Same Software using same EVERYTHING) Comes in several feet shifted. If I set it to International Feet it throws my Ortho Image off but bringsin my DEM perfectly. My solution is set it ti International feet, bring in the DEM, set your drawing back to US Survey Feet and then bring in the Orthomosaic Image (if you are using Drone). 

C3D throws in a shift, guaranteed no doubt about it 100% positive.

I found two other forums talking about this and the only reason I knew that they had this problem. They had a nerd explanation for it I am not going to get into, easiest way to not have to formalize the **** thing is to do what I said, easiest way.  

[Anonymous]

Farther north you go on State Plane, worse it will be (if you are using US Survey Feet with a DEM). 

FIX THE PROBLEM AUTODESK. Several feet shiftand having to quirk our way around or have some formula is unacceptable.

[Anonymous]

Did not use Recap, recap is TRASH. You dont need recap to create a DEM. I have used Recap and is complete garbage for Aerial Photogrammetry 

[Anonymous]

We should not have to use  recap to keep this shift from happening. I paid thousands for my Aerial Photogrammetry Software for a reason, because Recap SUCKS  I feel bad for anyone that uses Recap for Aerial Photogrammetry, accuracy is GIS grade. I obtain .04'-.1' horizontal with my Software and .1'-.3' vertically. 

[ChicagoLooper]

Created using what? What’s the program? Describe your work flow using a term other than EVERYTHING. Why the secret? Too embarrassed too disclose?

You are posting to the forum to complain. Bad move, really bad. The forum is a place to share knowledge and to offer and find solutions, not to vent. 

[Anonymous]

What software I amusing is irrelevant, because other people have had the same issue and 9 times out of 10 they are using Pix4D. I use what USGS uses I dont use Pix4D. "Vent"? They have known about this problem for 5 years and is still not fixed, and try pushing complete trash Recap. Recap in my book has won an award for the worst aerial photogrammetry software on the market. If we dont complain about it they will never fix it. 

If it were me, I would gladly read through the complaint (which is highly justified) to figure out a solution if I was another person having the same problem. I added a easier solution then the other forum had mentioned, much faster, easier, with no "formula" I would classify that as adding value to this forum but thanks for the schooling have a good day. 

[Mike.M.Carlson]

Hello,

With all do respect your approach to getting technical support for your issue is unprofessional and offensive.  Clearly you are a novice with Civil 3D and its use in the surveying industry.  I have no idea why you would use the DEM surface create option to get your terrain into C3D when there are multiple other more accurate/proven ways to represent UAS topographic data within C3D.  Clearly you don’t understand basic units management in ACAD/C3D and how DEM units work in Autodesk software.  

Not sure if you’re aware, but typically publicly available USGS DEM is provided in meters, so that is why Autodesk’s workflow is based on a metric approach and the BIG assumption that the C3D user who is trying to leverage DEM surface workflows understands basic units setup within C3D....or at a minimum learn the other more accurate ways to import/manage UAS topographic data.  

Anyway since you have provided no meaningful information about your workflow and data outputs before the C3D step, I wish you good luck.  I certainly hope your peers or your firms client base doesn’t get their hands on your dialog above.

[Anonymous]

Its offensive to say that Autodesk knows about problems they refuse to fix after 5 years knowing about the problem?You may be an Autodesk cheerleader but they have had C3D out for 14 years, I would think that is sufficient enough time to work out the quirks. C3D is less clunky than other softwares (I own Carlson as well), its why I use it, however for the monstrous price difference you would think they would fix important things like a DEM shift. (I am not the only one having problems with this look at other posts). 

GOOD GRIEF, I use Agisoft Metashape (same software USGS uses, you use .prj files to get it from meters to feet). Depending on whether you are using international feet or survey feet, you use the correct .prj file for whatever the heck your trying to use, I use US Surevy feet prj file. Your entire theory is blown out of proportion because as I have said 100 times (yet you 2 are apparently novices as well) or have no experience in Aerial Photogrammetry, the Orthomosaic Image comes in PERFECTLY but the DEM is shifted AGAIN I AM NOT THE ONLY ONE HAVING PROBLEMS WITH THIS. Ignorance is not bliss when people act like they know what they are talking about. 

for the 100th time its not Agisoft thats the issue, its Autodesk read this https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/civil-3d-forum/civil-3d-causes-horizontal-shift-in-dem-geotif-surface...

read this https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/civil-3d/troubleshooting/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles/Civil...

There are more complaining about it and I bet my bottom dollar they are using pix4d.

Again, I already posted the solution on the board, so I dont know why king draftsman Michael has to keep posting as as an autodesk cheerleader and a pillar of the community when someone complains about Autodesk quirks.  

Yes C3D is best on the market, however its unacceptable to know about issues for 5+ years and not fix them, thats the issue. 

You are too funny for that last comment. I bow down to your royalness.

You win.

CIVIL 3D IS GREAT, AWESOME, ITS CHEAP AND THERE IS NO PROBLEMS WHAT SO EVER. I never ever get a fatal error. Wooohoooo yes! Please raise the price to 10k for a 3 year subscription Autodesk! 

[clinton_merrell]

100% this. I've been personally dealing with this issue for at least 3 years. 

It's dumb that we have to resort to this to fix the issue but it worked!

However, to get that last bit of accuracy you also need to shift your surface manual to the North and East by half of your DEM grid spacing as described here: https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/civil-3d-forum/civil-3d-causes-horizontal-shift-in-dem-geotif-surface...

[misfitdanny]

I know this is a couple years later, but I created my DEM, point cloud, ortho, etc in Agisoft MS, with my correct coordinate system. I also exported the files I needed using the same needed projection. I know it is possible to select another system when exporting, and wondering if its maybe possible you selected a different system when exporting? That being said, if you are exporting correctly, perhaps it is a problem with the civil 3d version you use? I know before when I tried importing point clouds into versions 2022 and earlier it would come in shifted (MS to Recap to C3D). But I have 2024 and I imported my DEM from MS (based on only ground to an acceptable pixel resolution (still extremally accurate compared to a conventional survey done at 50' cross sections for example)). The DEM lands exactly where it should as I sample elevations on the model where I have my GCP points and they are spot on. I heard in 2022 and on the horizontal shift was fixed perhaps? Have you found that to be the case more recently on newer versions of C3D?

[cmerrell85]

I have found that the shift described in this thread has been fixed in versions 2023 and 2024. I don't believe it was put in the release notes however, so you wouldn't know unless you checked. However you still need to shift the created surface North and east by half of your DEM grid cell size, or your surface will still be shifted by half a cell size to the south of west of where it should be.

[misfitdanny]

Again, I am not sure why you are finding you having to move surface north and east like you say. The way my DEMs land hit right on the right spot and I check myself all around the surface with my ground panels in civil 3D and always being only .30 to 1 cm off which is very tight. It also aligns with my ortho-mosaic being in the right spot etc. If I were to move like you suggest, all my elevations would no longer match. I am using 2024 and have taken shots in the field and compared to where my DEM lands and itis right on. Strange. 

[KARLGEBHARDT3309]

I pointed this problem out to AutoCAD several years ago.  It all has to do with how AutoCAD interprets the pixel element from the import.  If your DEM/Geotif/or whatever is based on the northwest corner of the grid element, then AutoCAD does fine.  If the DEM/Geotif/or whatever is based on the centroid of the grid element, then AutoCAD still assumes it is working from the northwest corner, which causes the shift. I'm working in 2024 C3D and it still has the issue.  Can be really serious in certain applications.  Just be careful how you use the data.