Connecting Pipes on Different Networks

[Anonymous]

Hi all,

I have created a proposed pipe network, which I want to connect to an existing pipe network.  I created a Data Shortcut from another file to copy as a reference into my active file so I can work with the active existing pipe network in my prospector (now it's no longer an XREF).  When attempting to connect my proposed structure (manhole) to the existing pipe, it says "error! cannot connect parts belonging to different networks". 

This is kind of a bummer, since I wanted to keep the existing pipe network separate from the proposed.  I then attempted to merge networks using the merge command on the modify panel.  And I'm unable to merge the existing network into the proposed network.  I thought at first the reason for this is because the utility type in the pipe network properties dialog box is drainage for existing and sanitary for proposed.  I then tried to change the existing to sanitary, and it won't let me change it. It keeps reverting back to drainage.  Is that because it's a data shortcut?

The overall problem here is that I want to connect the proposed manhole with the existing pipe network.  If that means they all need to be on the same network that's fine.  But it won't let me merge the networks! 

Any help?

Thanks,

[troma]

You can't do any edits to an object that is a data shortcut.

[Anonymous]

After creating the data shortcut, I right clicked the pipe network and did "create reference" which made it "Active" in the drawing...

I want to be able to make edits to the pipe network though, I thought doing the data shortcut would do that.  I have a file with a pipe network, and another file with a different pipe network.  I want to merge the two together and make them "Active" in the same file, so I can make edits/ revisions as I need.  The XREF command doesn't seem to do it. 

In Microstation, you can simply copy the ref file into the active dgn, and done. 

I thouhgt that creating a data shortcut, then from that, right click and create refernce was the equivalent of the microstation example above?

Thanks,

[Civil3DReminders_com]

You can put the other pipe network in the drawing with Promote, but this will remove the link between the current drawing and the other drawing. So any changes won't be reflected in the other drawing. This probably isn't what you want. 

What you want is not possible in Civil 3D. You'll have to have both drawings open and make changes in the appropriate drawing for each pipe network.

The data shortcut makes a copy of the pipe network that is essentially read only except for changing the style.

[troma · Accepted solution]

Generally the idea is that you do your edits in the source drawing. The data shortcut allows you to view the objects in other drawings, but not to edit. It is just a 'shortcut' back to it's source.
For example, I have drawings of a subdivision. One drawing has my sanitary network, another drawing has my storm network. From these source drawings, the networks are shortcut into 20 different drawings of plan/profiles etc. I don't want to have to edit the network in every drawing! When I make a change, I make it in one drawing. The shortcut takes care of updating all the others.

Having said all that, if you really want to have a disconnected copy of the pipe network in your current drawing, you can 'promote' it. Right-click on the network in prospector, click Promote.

[Anonymous]

I DO want to copy the other dwg file into my active file, and make changes WITHOUT it affecting the ref file. 

[Anonymous]

Thanks!  I do understand the concept of refernce files.  In this case, I just want one file with the proposed network attached to the existing network. 

Unless I can attach an XREF to my current DWG and attach one part from the active file to another part in the XREF. 

Thanks,

[troma]

BTW also note I've read of a bug that occurs when you x-ref and shortcut pipes from the same file. It prevents the data shortcut from updating. I've never encountered it myself, but I've read a few threads on the forums here about it.

[Anonymous]

So, what is the difference between an XREF and a Data Shortcut? 

If a Data Shortcut is only for display purposes, and an XREF is only for display and snapping purposes...what's the difference? 

[troma]

We do proposed and existing in one network so they connect.
Careful with the promote command. Remember, if you change anything later this will not be linked to the original!

[Anonymous]

-I have noticed that bug.  There's a delay in the update process...but it ends up working. 

[Anonymous]

O.k.

So you recommend that In the separate files I create all pipes in the same network name?  What about utility type? 

If in the separate files I have the same network, then when I XREF into the other I can connect parts?

[troma]

X-ref is an AutoCAD command.
It brings in the whole drawing like a block. You can scale, rotate etc if you wish. You can turn layers on and off etc.

Data shortcut is only for Civil 3D data objects: surface, pipe network, alignment, profile etc. When you create a reference you can't move it in the current drawing, but you can change the display of it to whatever style you like (different from the source). Only the "data" is "shortcut", not the style of the object or the labels on it.

[troma]

We do one network for Sanitary, one for Storm, one for Water.
Depending on the size of the project these could be all in one drawing or in three different drawings.
I've never done pipes for other utilities, but if I was I would take the same approach.

You can't do any edits on objects in an x-ref either.

[Anonymous]

O.k.

So I want to make sure I'm on the right track:

In order to accomplish what I want (and I would like to use data shortcuts if possible) -

Merge all pipes into the same network in both files.  Name that network the exact same in each files.  Then use data shortcut, and I should be able to connect parts?

[Anonymous]

I like the idea of separating the SAN network from the STRM, etc.  However, sometimes there's a main trunk which is a combined storm and sanitary.  If I create a network for that, how do I combine the SAN with the combined SAN+STRM network?

[Anonymous]

I guess the right question here is :

How do I connect parts of pipes when the SAN is in 1 ref file, the STRM is an another, and the existing combined SAN_STRM is in another file. 

[troma]

To connect them, they must be in one network, in one drawing.
I'm not sure what you're getting at when you say "Merge all pipes into the same network in both files." This only needs to be done in ONE drawing file.

If you merge pipes into a network that is shortcut into another drawing, when you synchronize the shortcut all those pipes will show up in the other drawing, since they are now part of that network.

[troma]

I don't have much positive or intelligent to say on combined systems.

[Anonymous]

I may be running into a problem when trying to connect pipes.  Please see the attached image.

The manhole isn't quite on top of the main trunk, however, some of them are and it's the same error message for each location where there's a manhole cutting into a main trunk. 

It doesn't look like they're connected, however, the error is saying it is?