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Civil 3D 2011 Survey Points inserted via point file do not correspond with existing drawing and they're at 1/12th distance in comparison to known points.

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Message 1 of 16
bhaynesPLN2Q
752 Views, 15 Replies

Civil 3D 2011 Survey Points inserted via point file do not correspond with existing drawing and they're at 1/12th distance in comparison to known points.

I will openly admit I am a greenhorn with Civil 3D in general. I've taken a position as an engineering tech and I have been able to figure most problems out via Google and these forums, though I'm at my wits end on this one. I am currently working in Civil 3D 2011. I've tried inserting survey points submitted by contractors in multiple different ways. 

 

I have 2 problems:

 

1) When the survey points are inserted they appear way off to the Northeast in cad space, which is an issue but given I know where certain points are in relation I could move them to correspond with the existing drawing.  A fix would be greatly appreciated but not as necessary in comparison to the 2nd issue. 

 

2) I have measured the distance between two survey points after insertion and this distance shows up at 1/12th of the actual known distance when compared to the existing drawing. 

 

See attached snips of my parameters and the issues I'm facing. There has to be a way to solve this issue, please help the greenhorn. Let me know if any additional information is needed. These few points were inserted as a test so I could configure my settings to accept additional points. Thank you in advance! 

 

 Base Drawing SettingsBase Drawing SettingsUnits & Zone SettingsUnits & Zone SettingsTransformation settingsTransformation settings

 

My Base drawing and parametersMy Base drawing and parametersPoints after insertionPoints after insertionPoints are at 1/12th distance they should bePoints are at 1/12th distance they should be

15 REPLIES 15
Message 2 of 16
Pointdump
in reply to: bhaynesPLN2Q

Hi @bhaynesPLN2Q,
Welcome to the Autodesk Forums.
Your first screen shot shows Length Type: "Engineering", which is decimal inches. That's why the 1/12 problem. Change that to "Decimal".
Uncheck "Apply transform settings". You don't need that tab.
Dave

Dave Stoll
Las Vegas, Nevada

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Message 3 of 16
bhaynesPLN2Q
in reply to: Pointdump

Unfortunately, I have tried this before and I did again just to check if I missed something. The result is yes it does make the distances between the newly inserted survey points the correct distance. The problem is that when I do this, the known distances in the entire drawing are also multiplied by 12. I need the survey points I inserted in the drawing to match the existing corners of a building for which I know the exact location. They are my control points so I will know where exactly to set the group of points. When I do this the points are still at 1/12th the distance they need to be even if the number is correct.
Thanks for your suggestions I had hoped they would've solved my problem but no cigar.
Message 4 of 16
Pointdump
in reply to: bhaynesPLN2Q

Sometimes it's easier to start over with the right foot-units template than to fix a drawing. Please post your drawing and data.
Dave

Dave Stoll
Las Vegas, Nevada

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Message 5 of 16
rl_jackson
in reply to: bhaynesPLN2Q

INSUNITS = 0, along with @Pointdump advise


Rick Jackson
Survey CAD Technician VI

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Message 6 of 16
hamidatut72
in reply to: bhaynesPLN2Q

I think it's better to import your points into a new default drawing, Then paste your drawing objects to the new file. see if it works?

Message 7 of 16
Pointdump
in reply to: bhaynesPLN2Q

@bhaynesPLN2Q,
Civil 3D is 3 programs: Civil 3D, Vanilla AutoCAD, and Map 3D. Unfortunately, each can have different units assigned:
Drawing Settings >> Units and Zone >> Drawing Units
Drawing Units (UNITS) >> Length Type
MAPCSASSIGN >> Select Coordinate System
You can have a drawing which began life as a Vanilla drawing in Inch Units, assigned Feet Units in Civil 3D, and assigned a Metric Coordinate System to Map 3D. There's no magic button to fix things and no error trapping message that would at least alert you to the problem ahead.
Dave

Dave Stoll
Las Vegas, Nevada

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Windows 10 Pro 64 / Civil 3D 2024
Message 8 of 16
bhaynesPLN2Q
in reply to: Pointdump

Good morning Dave, thanks again for the response.

 

I've attached the DWG file I've been working with as well as a PDF of the points and a corresponding diagram. Point #'s 101-102 will be my control points as they are the corners of the building "MCAS" I spoke about earlier . A snip of the area has also been attached. The red lines are what I attempted to draw for the new parking lot, however those were based off of measurement proposals. They could be inaccurate. This was when I attempted to start loading the coordinates with unforeseen issues. When you say I need to start over with a new template I guess I don't quite understand what you mean. Does this mean to open a new file, set the parameters and somehow populate the existing map and data into this template? How does someone do this? I'm still a noob at this, my apologies. I'd hate to lose everything I have, plus this file is used as an xref for a multiple of other dwg files which are extremely important. Please help. 

 

Thank you.

Message 9 of 16
bhaynesPLN2Q
in reply to: rl_jackson

INSUNITS have now been set to 0 and the attachments have been sent in reply to Dave. 

 

Thanks.

Message 10 of 16
Pointdump
in reply to: bhaynesPLN2Q

Thanks for posting your drawing and data.
I'm still scratching my head over it. Definitely no magic button fix. Here's the first thing I noticed. Someone has used Edit GeoLocation. I can usually fix that by using GEOREMOVE Command and then re-assigning a coordinate system. Not this time.

 

Wagonwheel_1.png

 


I imported the points in the PDF to a new drawing assigned a KS83-SF Coordinate System. While definitely in the ballpark, they're not close enough to use. Drawing and Point File attached.
I'm hoping someone will see something I'm missing, but I'm not able to fix the drawing. Where did you get it? Someone spent a lot of time on it, and if you could get the original drawing it would probably be OK. Too many hands have touched what you ended up with.
Dave

Dave Stoll
Las Vegas, Nevada

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Message 11 of 16
sboon
in reply to: bhaynesPLN2Q

Late to the party but the thing I noticed when I opened the ALP drawing is that the Grid Scale factor is set to 40. 

 

Steve

Steve
Expert Elite Alumnus
Message 12 of 16
bhaynesPLN2Q
in reply to: Pointdump

Like I mentioned in the first post, I have recently taken a new position as an autocad engineer tech. The job is through my local airport in Wichita, Kansas. As far as I know this file is the original that has been updated over time to reflect new additions and deletions. The man who preceded me was much more familiar with the process but unfortunately he has been gone for 2 years and won't return any calls to help the situation. I was thrown into the water here, and I'm trying to swim. 

Message 13 of 16
bhaynesPLN2Q
in reply to: hamidatut72

If I do as you suggest here wouldn't that make this xref file work incorrectly in conjunction with existing files that reference this drawing?

Message 14 of 16
Pointdump
in reply to: bhaynesPLN2Q

@bhaynesPLN2Q,
Didn't want you to think you've been forgotten. I've been trying different approaches to your drawing. Nothing I can think of works. And the point file from the PDF doesn't land in the right spot either.
You're going to need to scale, move and rotate to line things up. Use the ALIGN Command. If you can find 2 or 3 survey-grade points to match up your linework with, it should get you close enough.
Dave

Dave Stoll
Las Vegas, Nevada

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64GB DDR4 2400MHz ECC SoDIMM / 1TB SSD
NVIDIA Quadro P5000 16GB
Windows 10 Pro 64 / Civil 3D 2024
Message 15 of 16
bhaynesPLN2Q
in reply to: Pointdump

Thanks for your response Dave, I was working on another project last week but I'm getting back to this one today. I was able to draw the shape of the parking lot and now I will be trying to scale that shape today using known points. The rotation appears to be correct, stay tuned.

 

Brad  

Message 16 of 16

Hello @bhaynesPLN2Q 

 

Your dwg named ALP current.dwg is NOT georeferenced correctly against KS83-SF. If you turn on Bing Aerial imagery in your drawing you'll clearly see your line work is off  (compared against KS83-SF). I estimate your linework will be in Texas, west of Amarillo which makes your x,y coordinates inaccurate. Just because you've assigned KS83-SF to your dwg doesn't necessarily mean your drawn lines have geospatially accuracy--it just means you've assigned a 'known coordinate system' to your drawing.

 

To fix your drawings, you'll need to physically move all your linework to the northeast. When you do that, you can georeference the PDF named MCAS-Civil Site Design_100% IFC_2019-09-17.pdf. First and foremost, you'll need to vectorize the PDF using the PDFImport command. Next, scale and rotate the new vectors against basepoints named 101 and 102. You'll find those basepoints, and all other relevant points, on Page 2 of the PDF named MCAS-Civil Design_100% which is in post #8 of this thread.

 

Images below:

  1. This image displays the Bing Aerial basemap (KS83-SF). The PDF named MCAS-Civil Design_100% was imported using PDFImport command and is shown in green. The yellow arrows show the location of point 101 to the south and point 102 to the north.
  2. This is a close up of point 101. The red X's are cogo points inserted using page 2 of your MCAS-Civil.pdf.
  3. This is a close up of point 102. The red X's are cogo points inserted using page 2 of your MCAS-Civil.pdf.

Image-1Image-1

 

 

Image-2Image-2

 

 

Image-3Image-3

 

Once you've got both ALP Current and MCAS-Civil Site Design_100% lined up accurately, you should create NEW xrefs for future reference. Make sure you delete the old drawings after you've created the NEW ones so there's no confusion which is accurate and which is not. 

 

 

Chicagolooper

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