Pipe/Structure HGL Frustrations

[john.klinke]

If my frustrations with the software come thru in this post, then I apologize up front, but it seems that Civil 3D gets less and less development and I'm shocked at seeing how the HGL is handled after adding all the data to a recent pipe network.  Maybe someone will be able to answer my questions below and point me in the right direction.

Some background: Here in Texas we have municipalities which require our Storm Drainage Systems to be designed in a Multi-Frequency Event scenario.  Due to these constraints, I have never utilized any of the storm calculation methodologies put forth so far.  So, I've developed several Apps that facilitate the design and also the profile drafting of the storm drain system after completion of the design.

Once pipe networks became more prevalent, we have begun utilizing them for drafting our systems in plan view and utilizing the pipes in profile and label standard information thru label styles.  Keeping the pipes and design congruent has always been a pain and the HGL data has always being drawn by hand and notes added to express the hydraulic data without trying to add the data to each pipe.

I recently bit the bullet and made a work flow that utilizes and carries the "handle" of the pipes thru the design to then be utilized in my Pipe_Update vb.net app that allows to update the pipes if any changes in size, slope, etc. are required.  Having never had access--until recently--to the HGLUp, HGLDown, JunctionLoss, FlowRate, etc. I was happy to see that these features were made available for the Pipes in the recently and was excited to try adding this data to my pipes.  

After incorporating the HGLUp, HGLDown, JunctionLoss and FlowRate to my Pipe_Update vb.net application, I realized the current drafting of the HGL does not draft as I would have expected.  We typically draft our HGL with the losses shown as vertical changes at the location of the loss.  AutoCAD drafts the losses over some unknown pipe distance so the HGL has a slope across the junction.  While I could get used to this and not a game changer, the examples provided below are further irritations.  As can be seen in the HGL having gaps and ending before the final inlet.  I also don't even think the pipe styles use the Junction Loss.

So my Questions Are:

1. What Methodologies do people use for drafting HGL for storm networks
2. What methodologies do people utilize for expressing the hydraulic data for the pipes
3. Is there a Methodology which allows for the Junction Losses to be drafted vertically at the junction as apposed to a sloping loss
4. Does changing the Junction Loss for a pipe affect anything, is the Junction Loss used for anything by AutoCAD
5. What are the parameters which set where the HGL/Loss begins/ends
6. Why are the Hydraulic Properties of Structures not available thru the SDK
7. Does changing those properties for Structures affect anything, are they used for anything by AutoCAD
8. Why does my HGL not draft thru a Bend
9. Why does my HGL stop before the final inlet and not include the junction loss at the end of the system

(Pipe Network Plan & Profile) 

Note the diff. between the hand drafted pink and the pipe style HGL

(Pipe Network Profile HGL with Gaps and Ending before the Inlet)
Note the diff. between the hand drafted pink and the pipe style HGL

(Available Pipe Properties - Also Available Thru SDK)

(Available Structure Properties - Not Available Thru SDK ?)

[Civil3DReminders_com]

I would draft the HGL in the program.

If you are using the data for another reason, then I'd keep the stored values in the pipes and structures.

To my knowledge Autodesk doesn't use the information. It might be used and added to in the new Civil 3D drainage design tools. 

Not enough people in Texas complained to get Autodesk to change the how it is drawn.