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Post 1 of 16

Autodesk Simulation - Is this possible?

965 Views, 15 Replies
02-02-2012 11:58 AM

Hi

 

I’m carrying out a project at Uni which is the design of a hydraulic turbine blade. The blade/ turbine will be fit within a tube (micro tubular) and has been designed to run at 300 rpm when a flow rate of 0.003m3/s passes through the tube.

 

My question is - if I have the pipe vertical and the blade constrained within the pipe so that there is a 1.5m head, can simulation show me the resulting turning velocity of the blade when I pass my desired flow rate through the tube?

 

tried attaching the **** but says too big, so have attaxhed the two blades Id like to test and tube. created in 2011 inventor pro

 

Any help would be kindly appreciated

 

Regards

 

Ryan

Post 2 of 16

Re: Autodesk Simulation - Is this possible?

02-02-2012 11:59 AM in reply to: ryan.sanderson

sorry, meant to say tried attaching assembly but said file was too big

Post 3 of 16

Re: Autodesk Simulation - Is this possible?

02-06-2012 08:19 AM in reply to: ryan.sanderson

Ryan,

 

Based on your comments it sounds to me that you can simulate this with SimCFD, but you are going to have to be careful with the setup.  I would suggest that you model your simulation with the defined inlet flow rate and see what the resulting turbine speed is instead of using a pressure setup.   When defining the inlet flow rate make sure that you don't use a constant flow rate, but include a linear warm up/ramp up period that lasts over 50-100 iterations worth of the simulation.

 

Since it seems that the transient response isn't important at the moment, when you define you inertial value for your turbine (or the solid material type), make sure that you use a much larger value than what it really is. This will only effect your transient response and not your steady state speed.  The outcome will be a much more stable analysis.  If you were to use a light turbine, you would likely see a chatter in the RPMs and most likely divergence unless you use a very small timestep.

 

When doing these turbine simulation, I sometimes like to turn on intellignet solution control (ISC) for added stability.

 

Try to simplify your geometry as much as possible so that you can keep your mesh count reasonable.

 

-Royce



Royce Abel

Technical Support Manager

Post 4 of 16

Re: Autodesk Simulation - Is this possible?

02-06-2012 08:30 AM in reply to: Royce_adsk

Royce

 

Thanks for your reply. Your answer scared me as Ive never used sim before and to be honest some of the wording went right over my head. Do you think this is possible for a newbie?

 

Best regards

 

Ryan

Post 5 of 16

Re: Autodesk Simulation - Is this possible?

02-06-2012 08:34 AM in reply to: ryan.sanderson

Ryan,

 

I wouldn't say it is the best problem to do as a newbie, but it is possible.   If it is something that isn't NDA, we can work through it together in the forum.

 

If you could launch the geometry from Inventor into CFD and setup the model based on your what you think you should do and post a support share file here, we can review it and supply some comments to you.

 

-Royce



Royce Abel

Technical Support Manager

Post 6 of 16

Re: Autodesk Simulation - Is this possible?

02-06-2012 08:58 AM in reply to: Royce_adsk

thanks very much

 

im just downloading 2012 as this looks more visually friendly to me. Then im going to have to take my assembly over to sim and find out how to create a mesh of the two parts. Do you think that I need the full length of pipe of should I just use a small piece as if were using flow rate , head wont really come into consideration within the model does it?

 

appreciate your help thus far, thanks

Post 7 of 16

Re: Autodesk Simulation - Is this possible?

02-06-2012 09:09 AM in reply to: ryan.sanderson

Lets start with 5 X Diamater of Pipe for the inlet and outlet extension.

 

-Royce



Royce Abel

Technical Support Manager

Post 8 of 16

Re: Autodesk Simulation - Is this possible?

02-08-2012 03:04 AM in reply to: ryan.sanderson

hi

 

been trying to follow this tutorial, selecting the face etc and isolating the bit to test as per this vid

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oL_DOxFagvI&feature=related

 

but it wont allow me to do it, should i be trying to do this?

 

Ive got no where since we last mailed

 

ive created the assembly in inventor,

 

then shipped it over to sim through the add on, what steps next :-s

Post 9 of 16

Re: Autodesk Simulation - Is this possible?

02-08-2012 01:12 PM in reply to: ryan.sanderson

Are you using Autodesk Simulation CFD or Autodesk Simulation Multiphysics/CFD aka. Algor?

 

Thanks,

Royce



Royce Abel

Technical Support Manager

Post 10 of 16

Re: Autodesk Simulation - Is this possible?

02-08-2012 10:31 PM in reply to: ryan.sanderson

im using (attempting) to use multiphysics 2012, Smiley Frustrated

Highlighted
Post 11 of 16

Re: Autodesk Simulation - Is this possible?

02-09-2012 11:39 AM in reply to: ryan.sanderson

Hi Ryan,

 

It is confusing, but Autodesk Simulation CFD is a different product from Autodesk Simulation Multiphysics and performing a fluid flow simulation (CFD). So if you are finding it hard to following the previous suggestions, it's because you are posting in the wrong Discussion Group! (The Discussion Group for Multiphysics/Mechanical is under Autodesk Simulation.)

 

I think your original question was "can it be done". The answer for Autodesk Simulation Multiphysics is no, unless these assumptions are true:

  1. The entire flow passes through the turbine.
  2. If rotating the turbine to produce a flowrate gives the "same results" as specifying the flowrate to produce the rotation.

The second assumption is not true in reality since a driven turbine causes a pressure increase between inlet and outlet, where as a flow causing the turbine to rotate will have a pressure decrease between inlet and outlet.

 

So, where do you want to go from here?

 



John Holtz, P.E.
Technical Support Specialist
Customer Service & Support
Autodesk, Inc.

Post 12 of 16

Re: Autodesk Simulation - Is this possible?

02-09-2012 12:15 PM in reply to: ryan.sanderson
Hi

I have inventor pro 2011, I could try and find the Autodesk sim Cfd product you talk of, I'm a student ad can get the majority free off of autodesk.

Which do you use, so that I can try and Get the same version to work along with you.

Post 13 of 16

Re: Autodesk Simulation - Is this possible?

02-09-2012 12:18 PM in reply to: ryan.sanderson
Is the inventor sim Cfd already built into pro?

Post 14 of 16

Re: Autodesk Simulation - Is this possible?

02-09-2012 12:40 PM in reply to: ryan.sanderson

Hi Ryan,

 

Inventor Simulation has NO fluid flow (CFD) capability. All of the Autodesk Simulation packages are separate and mostly independent. Since Autodesk Simulation Mechanical/Multiphysics cannot solve your problem but Autodesk Simulation CFD can solve your problem, I suggest that you download .... Autodesk Simulation CFD. (Actually, I do not know for certain that it is available in the educational version. You will either find out when you try to download it, or one of the CFD experts will reply to this thread.)

 

Just for the record, the simulation packages are:

  • Inventor Simulation, which is part of Inventor Professional.
  • Dynamic Simulation, which is part of Inventor Professional.
  • Autodesk Simulation Mechanical, for linear and nonlinear stress and heat transfer analysis
  • Autodesk Simulation Multiphysics, includes Mechanical plus fluid flow and combined fluid/thermal.
  • Autodesk Simulation Moldflow, for injection molded plastics
  • Autodesk Simulation CFD, for fluid flow and combined fluid/thermal.

 

 

 



John Holtz, P.E.
Technical Support Specialist
Customer Service & Support
Autodesk, Inc.

Post 15 of 16

Re: Autodesk Simulation - Is this possible?

02-10-2012 08:33 AM in reply to: john.holtz

hi are their any users who have a copy of Autodesk Simulation CFD who can carry out a simulation for me and produce a report i currently cannot get this software on an education basis unfortunately grrrrrr

 

thanks

Post 16 of 16

Re: Autodesk Simulation - Is this possible?

02-13-2012 09:25 AM in reply to: ryan.sanderson

Ryan,

 

Sorry, but there isn't an educational version of Simulation CFD available to give to you at this time.  

 

-Royce



Royce Abel

Technical Support Manager

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