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Copyright law and AutoCAD

8 REPLIES 8
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Message 1 of 9
Anonymous
1518 Views, 8 Replies

Copyright law and AutoCAD

I was wondering if anyone had ever really looked at the ownership rights of acad
files re: the client. Who actually owns the material, and does the client have
rights to change a file if they are given a digital copy? I realize this might
not be the best place for this, but I'm sure others would be interested in the
answers.
8 REPLIES 8
Message 2 of 9
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

"Perry Raglin" wrote in message
news:3C866326.AE757175@nrtco.net...
> I was wondering if anyone had ever really looked at the ownership rights
of acad
> files re: the client. Who actually owns the material, and does the client
have
> rights to change a file if they are given a digital copy? I realize this
might
> not be the best place for this, but I'm sure others would be interested in
the
> answers.
For a really good answer, you probably need to talk to a lawyer, and keep in
mind that the laws can be different in each state, as well as different when
dealing with stuff crossing state lines. However, I think the basic
operating principle is that the DWGs are instraments of service, which
embody the design (the service) which is intellectual property and therefor
owned by the designer. BUT, you have a much better chance of making that
stick in court or arbitration if you have it in writing beforehand. So, the
rights the client has to the electronic files (both what they get and what
they can do with them) should be a part of the contract. I know AIBD put
together some documents spelling out how to licence the design, which really
is a better model. The client does NOT own the design, nor do they own the
drawings, either printed or digital. They have a licence to use the drawings
as a means to get a building, which they own. I don't know how many
architects have shifted gears to use this kind of model, but then again,
most architects don't have a business, they have a hobby, so issues like
intellectual property rights just annoy them. Might have something to do
with why they don't make any money.

Just my (not a lawyer) $0.02.
Gordon Price
Message 3 of 9
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

I believe this is subject to contractual agreement. I think you need a dated, signed paper drawing. Certainly, to cover liablity issues, I was trained, before Autocad, that you deliver a signed and dated copy of the drawings to the client, persuant to an agreement that your responsibilty is only for information on that copy. They can later alter a drawing or a cad file, make copies, and try to hold you responsible, but they need to produce one you signed to prevail in court, generally. (Or you have a dated copy that they hand-signed when they got theirs.)
Message 4 of 9
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

There's actually another recent thread on this same issue, in the Take5
group, called "who owns the drawing?" starting 3/1/02

Federal copyright law is pretty clear about this, the client owns the
drawings, but the architect owns the design. The whole "instrument of
service" phrase is something made up by Architects a long time ago, and has
no meaning to a court.

Gordon is absolutely correct that if there's a real question, you should
consult an attorney. A lot of my knowledge on the subject comes from a
seminar I attended given by attorneys who specialize in intellectual
property law, and construction related law.

A similar issue occurs in artworks, and we have a client who deals entirely
in intellectual property issues for artists. In the case of, for example, a
painting, the collector, or museum who buys the painting does not own the
copyright to it, just the painting itself. So, if the National Gallery of
Art wants to start selling calendars with reproductions of the Picasso's
that they own, they have to contact Picasso's estate, and obtain permission
to do so (which would involve a fee)

Bear in mind that this can be changed - if you put it into the contract that
the ownr gets the edsign, he gets the design.


"Gordon Price" wrote in message
news:64DB322D0B2D901CE9CD2F78F8BB38F6@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
>
> "Perry Raglin" wrote in message
> news:3C866326.AE757175@nrtco.net...
> > I was wondering if anyone had ever really looked at the ownership rights
> of acad
> > files re: the client. Who actually owns the material, and does the
client
> have
> > rights to change a file if they are given a digital copy? I realize
this
> might
> > not be the best place for this, but I'm sure others would be interested
in
> the
> > answers.
> For a really good answer, you probably need to talk to a lawyer, and keep
in
> mind that the laws can be different in each state, as well as different
when
> dealing with stuff crossing state lines. However, I think the basic
> operating principle is that the DWGs are instraments of service, which
> embody the design (the service) which is intellectual property and
therefor
> owned by the designer. BUT, you have a much better chance of making that
> stick in court or arbitration if you have it in writing beforehand. So,
the
> rights the client has to the electronic files (both what they get and what
> they can do with them) should be a part of the contract. I know AIBD put
> together some documents spelling out how to licence the design, which
really
> is a better model. The client does NOT own the design, nor do they own the
> drawings, either printed or digital. They have a licence to use the
drawings
> as a means to get a building, which they own. I don't know how many
> architects have shifted gears to use this kind of model, but then again,
> most architects don't have a business, they have a hobby, so issues like
> intellectual property rights just annoy them. Might have something to do
> with why they don't make any money.
>
> Just my (not a lawyer) $0.02.
> Gordon Price
>
>
Message 5 of 9
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

http://www.viennapat.com/newsletter/vol2iss7/Architect.htm

its a federal law, actually.

W.
Message 6 of 9
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

I read the referenced newsletter and noticed this one sentence I have quoted
here:
"Standard design details, however, are not subject to protection."

How does a firm in general protect its intellectual rights over its details
and general notes based on years of experience in the field? To me this is
a very valuable assest that should have some protection against employees
taking these details with them when they leave that firm, or others who have
received a set of plans, using those details in their own projects at some
later date.

This has a value when one considers that an architect can be in practice for
30 years and have a huge volume of details that finally work as hoped vs. a
recent graduate designing a similar structure with only a few years
experience and having to create his own set of details which have not been
tried in the field. This young architect could benefit from the older
architect's field experienced details and this could translate into a
monetary value.

Jack Talsky

"W. Spears, AIA" wrote in message
news:2FF45E01C308E0CFD7F2B4375E900235@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> http://www.viennapat.com/newsletter/vol2iss7/Architect.htm
>
> its a federal law, actually.
>
> W.
>
>
Message 7 of 9
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

> How does a firm in general protect its intellectual
rights over its details
> and general notes based on years of experience
in the field?  To me this is
> a very valuable assest that should
have some protection against employees
> taking these details with them
when they leave that firm, or others who have
> received a set of plans,
using those details in their own projects at some
> later
date.

 

In general, you are
correct,  an intellectual asset warrants protection from
unauthorized reproduction and re-use. The most likely solution would be to
certify agreement between employer and employee in the form of a non-competition
clause as well as an an acknowledgement signed by the employee that all works
are proprietary and as such, non-disclosure policies are in effect.

This covers your staff, but only
sort of, since there's no guarantee they won't do it anyway.

At least you've given them
notice.  If they break the rule you have grounds for recourse.

 

> This has a value when one considers that an architect can
be in practice for
> 30 years and have a huge volume of details that
finally work as hoped vs. a
> recent graduate designing a similar
structure with only a few years
> experience and having to create his own
set of details which have not been
> tried in the field.  This young
architect could benefit from the older
> architect's field experienced
details and this could translate into a
> monetary value.

 

This
suggests some interesting scenarios.


size=3>
 

First it
needs to be said that , in my opinion at least, there's a dividing line that
needs to be applied. Generic construction details indicating connections,
structural members, etc., don't really change that much from one office to
another, in the same jurisdiction or climate area. About the biggest difference
I've ever seen amounts to  style of delineation, i.e., text fonts, hatch,
etc. In extreme cases the amount of "detail" in the detail is a dead giveaway as
to who created it. From there you can go back to your employee agreement for an
answer.


size=3>
 

Overall I'd
say the "Standard Details" exclusion applies to this sort of work, as it
probably should, since a spread footing, for example, is always a spread
footing.


size=3>
 

On the other
hand, highly specialized detailing, for, say, a unique cornice design, or a
decorative structural connection that hasn't any proven history, "could"
fall under the copyright act. Especially if it lends a distinction to the
structure that wouldn't otherwise be there.


size=3>
 

Where this
all gets wild is in the arena of forensics analysis. Who has the copyright? Is
it the designer, or the analyst who provides for a solution in the detail for
the purpose of protecting all parties involved in building the structure and
maintaining it? For that matter, since this amounts in some cases to being a
life-safety matter, could it not be argued that such is public
domain?


size=3> 


size=3>Fundamentally, its another paper-trail issue, and should be addressed by
contract to the parties involved.


size=3>
 

Finally, I
don't know of too many architects richly rewarded for only their
detailing acumen, other than that its the attention to them that makes a great
building great.


size=3>
 


size=3>W.


Message 8 of 9
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts on
this. 

 

You have helped me understand it a little better. 

 

Jack Talsky


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

> How does a firm in general protect its intellectual
rights over its details
> and general notes based on years of experience
in the field?  To me this is
> a very valuable assest that should
have some protection against employees
> taking these details with them
when they leave that firm, or others who have
> received a set of plans,
using those details in their own projects at some
> later
date.

 

In general, you are
correct,  an intellectual asset warrants protection from
unauthorized reproduction and re-use. The most likely solution would be to
certify agreement between employer and employee in the form of a
non-competition clause as well as an an acknowledgement signed by the employee
that all works are proprietary and as such, non-disclosure policies are in
effect.

This covers your staff, but
only sort of, since there's no guarantee they won't do it anyway.

At least you've given them
notice.  If they break the rule you have grounds for
recourse.

 

> This has a value when one considers that an architect
can be in practice for
> 30 years and have a huge volume of details that
finally work as hoped vs. a
> recent graduate designing a similar
structure with only a few years
> experience and having to create his
own set of details which have not been
> tried in the field.  This
young architect could benefit from the older
> architect's field
experienced details and this could translate into a
> monetary
value.

 

This
suggests some interesting scenarios.


size=3>
 

First it
needs to be said that , in my opinion at least, there's a dividing line that
needs to be applied. Generic construction details indicating connections,
structural members, etc., don't really change that much from one office to
another, in the same jurisdiction or climate area. About the biggest
difference I've ever seen amounts to  style of delineation, i.e., text
fonts, hatch, etc. In extreme cases the amount of "detail" in the detail is a
dead giveaway as to who created it. From there you can go back to your
employee agreement for an answer.


size=3>
 

Overall
I'd say the "Standard Details" exclusion applies to this sort of work, as it
probably should, since a spread footing, for example, is always a spread
footing.


size=3>
 

On the
other hand, highly specialized detailing, for, say, a unique cornice design,
or a decorative structural connection that hasn't any proven history,
"could" fall under the copyright act. Especially if it lends a distinction to
the structure that wouldn't otherwise be there.


size=3>
 

Where this
all gets wild is in the arena of forensics analysis. Who has the copyright? Is
it the designer, or the analyst who provides for a solution in the detail for
the purpose of protecting all parties involved in building the structure and
maintaining it? For that matter, since this amounts in some cases to being a
life-safety matter, could it not be argued that such is public
domain?


size=3>
 


size=3>Fundamentally, its another paper-trail issue, and should be addressed
by contract to the parties involved.


size=3>
 

Finally, I
don't know of too many architects richly rewarded for only their
detailing acumen, other than that its the attention to them that makes a great
building great.


size=3>
 


size=3>W.


Message 9 of 9
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

I believe "standard design details" refers to industry standard, not office standard.

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