Property Set Data and Xref issues

[Anonymous]

I created style based Partition Type tags for my office. But to do this i added two PSDs to our library. The first one WallStyles, contains the Partition Type # and the walls fire rating.
The second is an object based PSD that has a value to override the Partition Number in the style based PSD. (This being asked for so that the users don't have to create a wall style for things like, type of GWB.) And a definition for the value that will actually be shown in the tag.

The attribute looks like this ObjectbasedPSD:NumberShown

The Property definition (NumberShown) that results in the number shown, is a formula that says if the override property is blank, use the style based property. Else use the override property.

The problem is that when i attach the tag to the wall, it doesn't find the style based property. i just get a darn question mark 😞 the override property works and shows up as expected when filled in.
I can see the value assigned to the style in the properties box/extended data tab. And if i change the attribute to StyleBasedPSD:PartitionNumber it does show the info related to the style.

Am i missing some thing ? We draw walls, doors and windows in the base plan,and i'm thinking the spaces will have to be there too. We want the tags for these objects to be in another drawing that references the base plan.

Also, If the space object and the room tag are in the same drawing, we can access the property data by selecting either.
Is this not true if we separate the spaces and room tags into different drawings? Is there a system to make sure all this data gets edited in the proper place?
Do you think its better to have the tag assign the PSD or have it added to the style during creation?

[Anonymous]

What version of ADT are you using?

Can you make a sample file that has your Property Sets along with some sample walls that have been tagged with your tag that exhibits the problem you describe, then ZIP that file and post the ZIP file attached to a reply here? While your description is admirably detailed, it is difficult to diagnose problems without having an example file to examine. One thing to check is that your formula property (ObjectbasedPSD:NumberShown) has a proper reference to the PartitionNumber property, which, since it is in a separate PSD, would need to include the PSD name, [StyleBasedPSD:PartitionNumber], and was selected from the list of available properties in the pane below the editing window, not simply typed into the editing window.

Access to property data via external references will vary with the version of ADT you are running. Are you using Project Navigator, or manually creating external references? I would assign style-based PSDs when creating the style; object-based PSDs can be attached via tagging or "manually" (using a PSD-only tool in 2006 or later, or on the Extended Data tab of the Properties palette).

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David Koch
Autodesk Discussion Group Facilitator
Using ADT 2004 at work; access to 2005, 2006 & 2007 at home

[Anonymous]

David, Thanks for the reply.
I've attached a sample drawing for you to look at . Drawing1.dwg is the "base" and Drawing2.dwg refrences drawing1.

My window tags are set up the same way as the Partition type tags ( and getting the same "?" result) and the doors firerating ( which come from the wall it's anchored in) isnt coming into the schedule either.

I am using ADT2007 and will be moving to Architecture2008 in the coming weeks. ( or NOW if you think it will help, although i am having the same issues in Architecture2008)

I did choose the propertys from the list below. ( on my machine it has a grey background)

We are manually creating xrefs. I'm not familiar with the
project manager yet, I'm not sure anyone else is either.

Thanks for taking some time checking this out for me!

[Anonymous]

I only have access to 2007 at home, and have a deadline at work that will likely prevent me from looking at this anytime this week. If anyone else wants to jump in here and take a look, be my guest, otherwise I will try to find time over the weekend.

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David Koch
Autodesk Discussion Group Facilitator
Using ADT 2004 at work; access to 2005, 2006 & 2007 at home

[Anonymous]

I noticed that if i xref the base plan in, attach the TAG, then delete the PSDs, the tag updates to the values from the base plan.

So how do i get the tag to stop attaching the extra property sets?

[Anonymous]

Tagging across external references works best when using the Drawing Management features of ADT/ACA (Project Browser/Project Navigator). In that environment, ADT/ACA "knows" that the data should live at the Construct level (not at the Element or View levels) and property data overrides will be attached to external references as needed to achieve that (none in the View file; on Elements in the Construct file).

Outside of the Drawing Management environment, ADT/ACA has no way of "knowing" where an override should or should not be placed, and so it always places an override in a file when tagging an externally dependent item. You have to be aware of that and manually remove the override in places where you do not want it. In the early releases that supported tagging through external references, the process was tedious and the results, even after the override was removed, were unacceptable (tags would not update when base drawing data was changed). My firm is still largely using 2004 (2008 is promissed "soon"), so we tag doors and spaces in the "base" drawing, to avoid update issues.

One item that we have had success tagging through external references is partitions, where, like you, we have a style-based property that holds the partition "ID" string. Unlike you, we do not have a provision for overriding the tag value - we would simply copy the style under a new name and edit the partition type "ID" string in the copy, if we had a partition of similar construction that needed to have a different partition type called out in the tag

I had never tried to set up an object-based PSD that tried to override a style-based value -AND- then tried to apply the override through an xref. As your sample files demonstrate, that does not appear to work. The object-based PSD in the base file correctly shows the style-based value when no override is present, but when used as an override when tagging through an xref, it fails - most likely because the style-based property set does not get placed as an override, so there is no WallStyles:Type property associated with that wall in the host file to have a value to report.

Removing the override in the host file allows the tag to read the value from the correctly functioning formula in the object-based Wall property attached to the wall in the base drawing, so it would appear that you will want to do that if you are going to need to have the tags in the host file, and not in the base file. You can do that after the fact, or at the time of tagging in the host file, by remembering to set the appropriate data source in the Edit Property Set Data dialog when tagging or in the Edit Referenced Property Set Data dialog when editing after the fact.

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David Koch
Autodesk Discussion Group Facilitator
Using ADT 2004 at work; access to 2005, 2006 & 2007 at home

[Anonymous]

As far as I know, there is not a way to tell ADT/ACA to not attach property data overrides when tagging objects through an external reference outside of the Drawing Management environment (Project Browser/Project Navigator).

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David Koch
Autodesk Discussion Group Facilitator
Using ADT 2004 at work; access to 2005, 2006 & 2007 at home

[Anonymous]

thanks again david for looking at this. I kind of figured out that was what was going on. I guess i need to familiarize myself with the project manager..
I wish i didnt have to design these with the over rides, but there are folks here who wont do things the right way and will wait untill the project is on it's way out the door before asking me to figure out the problem. This over ride willl come in very handy for those situations,