P3D 2012 Back To Back Lap Joint Stub End Flanges

[Anonymous]

I want to put 2 stub ends back to back with no pipe and currently it is not possible for me.

When you insert a Lap Joint Flange it comes in by itself without a stub end. When you click the plus on the lap joint flange and start to pipe, it automatically inserts the stub end and a piece of pipe.  If I delete the pipe coming off the stub end it will automatically remove the stub end. 

I noticed with the weld dots turned on that it doesn't show a weld at the stub end and the pipe but it will show it in the isometric which could be part of the problem (See photo attached).  I also know that the Stub end is a fastener so maybe the behavior of it is different?

Is there a way to put a lap joint flange in with the stub end without anything else attached so I may weld back to back stub ends?

Thank you,

Robert

[Anonymous]

If anyone from autodesk has seen this post could you please let me know if this is a known issue or if it is something we are doing wrong.  This will cause us to have hundreds of more welds if we are not able to weld back to back stub ends.

Thank you in advance,

Robert Cali

[Anonymous]

I'm also interested in a solution to this.

[PeterQuinn]

I haven't had time to work this through, but here's what I'm thinking.

Put in two WN flanges back to back. Subsitute both of them for Lap flanges with the subsitute grip. Now, this won't work out of the box because by default there isn't a connection for LAP-LAP connections. You can add one by going to project setup under connections. This is as far as I got when I was looking at it last night.

I'm no expert when it comes to how Plant 3D connections are made, so this may be a dead end.

One thing I'm curious about. Am I understanding correctly that you need to model back to back lap flanges? What do you use them for? Do you even have space to weld them?

[Anonymous]

Hi,

Changing out the back to back WN Flanges almost worked but it treated the 2 stub ends between the flanges as 1 and that's how the ISO turned out.  (See Attached).  I questioned the spacing as well but it turns the length of the stubs is great enough welding. 

There are instances where we have a butterfly valve next to a check valve and we need enough distance for the disc of the butterfly to clear.  We don't want a little spool piece between the 2 because it is unecessary and it adds an additional weld.  A lot of these pipes are 8 to 24" and adding a weld is very costly.  In meanwhile I will try adding the Lap/Lap connection.

Thank you,

[Anonymous]

Still haven't got a sollution from anyone.  Have you had any luck?

[AndyDavisArkance · Accepted solution]

Hi,

Something you could try is to create a new fitting that is modelled almost exactly the same as the sub-end - I have used a coupling - that you can actually insert manually.

Define the end-connections exactly as the sub-end but move the insertion point of the LAP end to the end of the fitting - it will not model the flange/stub-end assembly exactly the same as the stub-end fastener when inserted into your model but will position the mating flange, stub-end and gasket correctly. Set the ISO type and SKEY to match the original stub-end and duplicate the Long Description (family).

You'll also need to add a new joint setting for LAP - LAP, just set the fastener to be Universal.

In the model and in the ISO, you'll see that the flanges are shown at the end of the new couplings rather than behind the stub-ends but the dimensions are correct. Also, you'll see that there are 2 entries in the BOM for stub-ends as we now have 2 types of fitting with the same description.

Please see the attached images.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Andy

[Anonymous · Accepted solution]

Thank you for the help. 

I will keep this in mind if we have to call out the lap joints and stub ends as seperate items in the BOM. 

What I currently have done is taken the weld neck flange and converted the dimensions over to a lap joint.  I created a new isosymbol called "FlangeLJ" then modified the SKEY to FLLJ.  Luckily I do not need to call out the stub end and the flange as a seperate item in the BOM so I am able to make the isometric more representative.

see attached

[Bob_Lipchik]

Here we are 3 years later and still we can't connect back to back stub-ends to each other.  The problem lies with the fact that P3D treats stub ends as a connector rather than a fitting.  You question why we would want to do this.  The answer is because sometimes we need to do this.

Why hasn't this been addressed after all of this time?  This is a common problem and creating custom components to make a very expensive piece of software work shouldn't be a long term solution.

Any chance Autodesk can re-visit this issue and come up with a solution for us?

[BSchwartzkopf]

We need to be able to select the weld on the stub end and change it to field. Right now you cant select the weld that welds the stube end to a pipe it is hidden in the program you can only select the "weld" on the face of the stub end which isnt supposed to be there.

[PatrickByrne]

Other piping software treats the stub end as a separate item with welds why can’t Plant 3D do the same?

[PatrickByrne]

I am getting back into Plant 3D and I am relatively impressed with the advances especially in the Isometric creation. I have a few questions from a couple of years ago which I am hoping are resolved now. Coming from a CadWorx background I could do these easily 12 years ago.

Has this issue been resolved, I need to have separate items for the Stub In and Lap Joint Flange.

Thanks in advance.

[Bob_Lipchik]

I'm running 2017 version and it still appears to be an issue.  I will say, however, that I'm running the same spec database file that I was using when I created this thread.  So maybe there's something there but I doubt it.  I'm able to use grips to put a stub-end onto another BW fitting like an elbow or tee but not stub-end to stub-end.

Anyone else found a work around for this?

[PatrickByrne]

yes it does not seem to like it, I am able to attach a stub flange to a bend by selecting the Lap Joint flange and attaching that to the bend, it puts in the stub flange automatically.

Small steps

[aquaphil]

This seems to have been an issue for quite some time now. Is Autodesk going to fix this issue or are they waiting for one of users to do their work for them and come up with a solution?

[Anonymous]

The solution is to use new DefaultConnectorsConfig.xml file for connections. And not edit it from Project Setup. If you use default file in project 2020, the connection work correctly. If you edit this connection from project setup, the file not work correctly. It's necessary edit this file ussually from bloc notes of windows.

[Anonymous]

Hi, is it possible to share this new DefaultConnectorsConfig.xml? I am using a modified one and this doesn't work correctly.
Regards, Henk

[RickFrance]

Could you please explain the change you made in the DefaultConnectorsConfig.xml that allowed you to have a stub end to stub end connection?

[nikola.tsvetkov3CQ5J]

Probably this kind of solution is working for embedded catalogs. But for example doesn't work with catalog for AS Pipes and Fittings. You should manually write simple joint connection for PPL to LAP and for LAP to FL. But after this again stays the problem with connection stub end - to stub end. Autodesk team please advice how to proceed. Because this issue is 10 years old!

[BSchwartzkopf]

This is still an issue in 2025. Can someone at Autodesk please come up with a solution to connect back to back stub ends? 

I mean I keep getting told by Autodesk that they are actively programming and working on issues in Plant 3D but this is an issue that has been in the program since the beginning. This is one of many examples that lead me to believe P3D is not a software that is getting any attention.

I bet you can do this in Revit though!!