P&ID Tool Palettes

[mcawson]

I'm relatively new to P3D and am learning how to use P&ID.  What's been very frustrating to me is the limited selection of symbols that come out of the box.  In many cases, I could use a symbol from a different tool palette but when I try to select it, I get "symbol not found in current project".  It seems that no matter what I do in project setup, I only have PID PIP tool palette symbols to work with.  First question; how do I set the project up so that one of the other tool palettes such as PID ISA is used instead of PID PIP?  Second question, is it possible to have multiple tool palettes available, since the selection in multiple palettes would give me more options?  

I read a lot about creating your own symbols, which I think I know how to do, but who has the time to create all of the different symbols required for a good PID drawing?  Are there any downloadable .dwg files that contain a good selection of symbols I could use?  

[daniel.klingspor]

@mcawson 

"First question; how do I set the project up so that one of the other tool palettes such as PID ISA is used instead of PID PIP?"

-This is accomplished during the P3D Project Setup Wizard.  As you progress through the dialog boxes there is a point where you can select PIP or ISA standard for P&ID drawings.

Your second question ties into your other statements:

The way P3D handles the tool palettes with the P&IDs is that any symbol coming off the palette must be associated with an object in the project database, so any instrument symbol, pump symbol, valve symbol etc.  You can still insert AutoCAD blocks using the INSERT command but they are not automatically tied to anything in the P3D database. 

There may be a time where you want to use symbology that is not on the tool palette or represented in the project database and you want that symbol to be smart.  This can be accomplished by selecting that symbology, be it a block or just a collection of lines etc. and right clicking and selecting "Convert to P&ID Object", then selecting the appropriate category, Equipment, Pump for example.  This is very useful if you have a one-off symbol, a specialty pump for example, that does not need to be fully programmed into the palette.  I personally use this method for tanks and pressure vessels as it is easier to draft them this way.

With the P&IDs in P3D there is absolutely no "easy button" and it will require extensive setup and customization to fully take advantage of its benefits.  IMO this process could be more intuitive but it is what it is.  A part of this customization will be building a library of your own company's standard blocks for valves etc. if you do not want to use the built in symbols.  You may be able to find a library of symbols on the various free CAD webpages such as GrabCAD but you still will have to program them into P3D.

[mcawson]

Thank you. When I set up the project using the wizard, my only two options for standards are PIP or ISA. There are other tool palettes that I still cannot use, regardless of which standard I choose during setup. I just set up an ISA project, and it works to where I can use ISA symbols, but I can't use any others. How do I get to use the DIN or JIS-ISO tool palettes?

[daniel.klingspor · Accepted solution]

@mcawson 

Those PID standards are only accessible if you select Metric for your project setup. 

It sounds like you prefer multiple symbol styles from different standards. For example the Pump Symbols from DIN but the instrument symbols from PIP.

These symbols reside as blocks inside the "projSymbolStyle.dwg" file when you create a project.

What I would do is create several projects each using these different standards.  Then create a new master "template" project that you will use for all future projects.  You can now pick and choose which symbols you want from the DIN, ISA etc projects and assign them to their respective classes (pump, valve, etc.) in your new template project.

[mcawson]

That's exactly what I'd like to do. I will give that a try and reply back to this post. Thank you!

[daniel.klingspor]

Not a problem!  It's a bit of a steep learning curve but once you get going it gets a lot easier and will save you time and frustration ($$$$) in the long run.

[mcawson]

So I have created new projects using each of the available standards.  I'm not sure what to do to create this master template you refer to, and then pick from each project I created for the symbols I need.  Any tips?

[daniel.klingspor · Accepted solution]

@mcawson 

Your master template will be your "perfect" project, setup just the way your company/you like.  This will be where you compile all the symbols you want, layer setups, DWG templates etc.

What I do is I have a template, then I have "Test" projects.  If there is something I want to try, I create a test project based on the master template setup, that way you don't run the risk of breaking or corrupting your template.  If the changes work the way I want and its something I want to incorporate into the template, then I make those same changes for the template.

For your P&ID setup what you now need to do is customize your symbols through the project setup manager

For example you want to change your centrifugal pump symbol from PIP to a DIN symbol:

Go to the symbol properties through the selection tree on the left.

Then go to "Add Symbol"

Navigate to where you created your DIN project and select the "projSymbolStyles.DWG" from that project folder, you should now get a list of blocks for that project under "Available Blocks".  Find the DIN pump symbol you want to use and add it.

You will then get a dialog box for this symbol's settings.  Adjust them how you see fit.

Once that is completed you can select the different blocks you have associated with this pump type (symbols drop down menu upper left).

To the right of the drop down menu you can edit the block to make any changes you want after its been added to the project.

There is also the button to ADD TO YOUR TOOL PALETTE.  I recommend creating a new tool palette/workspace that you can save independent of the built in tool palettes and distribute as needed.  This is crucial if you are working with multiple designers/drafters.  You want everyone to use the same palette and don't want to have make it over and over again for each person.  You can skip this if its just you.

Under the property "GraphicalStyleName" you will need to change this to your new block.

Lastly, remove from the project the block you are no longer using.

I attached some screenshots.  Hope this helps.

[mcawson · Accepted solution]

The light bulb finally went on, thank you!  It'll take some time to get this master template project set up with all of the right symbols, but this is definitely the way to go.  

I created my master template using PIP standards.  Then, if a symbol for, say, an axial blower does not exist in PIP but does exist in ISO...I just add a symbol to the axial blower and navigate to the ISO projSymbolStyles.DWG file and find the axial blower in the list of blocks that come up.  Got it.

Mucho thanks for the help.  You're right, it's a steep learning curve (P3D in general is) but it's fun to make progress and finally be able to prepare some good looking drawings.