Isometric drawing, Sleeve, Weld symbols at ends of fitting

[doleischLG4UV]

Hello, good day,

i have created the following components:

Fitting (Elbow)

ContentGeometryTemplate: CPB_PLPL

ContentIsoSymbolDefinition: ELBOW,SKEY=ELPL

S1, EndType: PPL

S2, EndType: PPL

Pipe

ContentGeometryTemplate: CPP

ContentIsoSymbolDefinition: PIPE

S1, EndType: PPL

S2, EndType: PPL

Sleeve (Coupler)

ContentGeometryTemplate: CCOUPLING

ContentIsoSymbolDefinition: COUPLING,SKEY:COSW

S1, EndType: PSW

S2, EndType: PSW

I would like to have the choice of either connecting the fitting to the pipe using Butt Fusion or using the sleeve with Electrofusion.

This works without any problems in the 3D model.

Automatic routing creates a connection without a sleeve: (PPL,PPL)

Joint name in the standard case: "Fusionweld"

If I insert the sleeve (manually or by a compound joint and replacing the „Fusionweld“ connection), two connections are created: (PPL,PSW) and (PPL,PSW)

Joint name in the standard case: "Glue"

However, when I create an isometric drawing, the symbol for the joint (glue in the standard case) is only set at one connection of the elbow (although the elbow has the same properties on both sides):

My question

How can you ensure that the symbol for the "Glue" connection (here in cyan) is set on both sides of the elbow in the isometric drawing if the connection is present on both sides in 3D?

Thanks in advance for your help!

[h_eger]

Dear @doleischLG4UV ,

The SKEY for your components is defined incorrectly!
for glued elbows it would be "**PPL"
for glued sleeves it would be "**PSW"

these approaches are defined by default in the "IsoSkeyAcadBlockMap.xml".
The end code you defined for SKEY "**PL" does not exist and for the sleeve you have set "**SW" for Socket Weld.

[doleischLG4UV]

Hello Mr. Eger,

thank you for your reply.

However, I have to disagree.

Using SKEYs "ELPPL" and "COPSW" lead to errors when creating the iso:

"WARNUNG - Symbolschlüssel für Blockzuordnung für aktuelle Komponente nicht gefunden."
(English: WARNING - Symbol key for block assignment for current component not found.)

I have attached the IsoCreationLog.txt.

On the isometric view with placeholder symbols that is then output, you can still see the problem with the "Fusionweld" weld symbol on one side of the elbow:

Kind regards

[h_eger]

@doleischLG4UV ,

Of course, all adjustments should be made for this:

SKEY customisations

IsoSkeyAcadBlockMap.xml Customisations:

Then also produces this result:

[doleischLG4UV]

Hello again Mr. Eger,

thank you for your further detailed reply.

Yes, you are right, I can understand that the isometric creation does not produce errors if the entries

<SkeyMap SKEY="ELPPL" AcadBlock="Elbow"/>
<SkeyMap SKEY="COPSW" AcadBlock="Coupling"/>

are added to the IsoSkeyAcadBlockMap.xml and the SKEYs ELPPL and COPSW are used for the components.

Can you also use the sleeve (Endtypes PSW) for the connection between the elbow (Endtypes PPL) and pipe (Endtypes PPL) and create an iso from it?

In my case, the sleeve must be a separate part, not part of the elbow. That is my problem, which unfortunately is not solved by this.

I need to connect a fitting, for example an elbow, which has spigots (Endtypes PPL) to a pipe (Endtypes PPL) and I need to be able to use a separate sleeve for this. This works fine in the 3D model, but unfortunately the isometry produces the inconsistency that one side of the elbow gets the weld symbol "Fusionweld".

Unfortunately, the following was not included in my initial post, which I wanted to mention:

"I use Plant 3D 2024 with unchanged default settings for connections (DefaultConnectorsConfig.xml) and isometric creation (IsoSkeyAcadBlockMap.xml, IsoSymbolStyles.dwg, IsoConfig.xml). Only the parts mentioned above with their end types are self-created. The iso style used is "Final_A2"."
(Only now have I added the lines mentioned in the IsoSkeyAcadBlockMap.xml but this does not solve my problem.) 

The background to this is the use of these spigot fittings (manufacturer GF) for butt fusion or electrofusion together with separate electrofusion sockets. 

PE fittings with electrofusion couplers included are not available from certain larger sizes. There are also tees that have two integrated electrofusion couplers and the branch as a spigot, which should be able to be connected with a separate coupler.

Kind regards

[h_eger]

@doleischLG4UV ,

can you please show me the ellbow (green circle) in the properties window, namely the connection properties S1 and S2.

PS: Wir könnten uns auch auf deutsch unterhalten 😁

[doleischLG4UV]

Hallo Herr Eger  @h_eger ,

gern zeige ich Ihnen die Anschlusseigenschaften des Bogens, welche im Katalog vorgegeben wurden. 

Ich danke Ihnen, dass Sie sich meinem Anliegen bereits bis zu diesem Punkt angenommen haben. Es ist sicher nicht immer einfach, auf die verschiedensten Fragestellungen um AutoCAD Plant 3D eingehen zu können. 

Es ist angenehm für mich, ihnen auf Deutsch zu schreiben. Im Hinblick auf die englischsprachige Community füge ich meine inhaltliche Darstellung unten so gut ich es kann auch auf Englisch ein.  

Die Anschlusseigenschaften des Bogens sind hier abgebildet (ich hoffe groß genug):

Ich nutze die Anschlussart PPL, weil ich den Bogen dadurch alternativ auch durch Stumpfschweißen (Verbindung in Plant 3D: Fusionweld) mit dem Rohr verbinden kann.

Was mich am Ergebnis auf der Isometrie (Beitrag 1 und 5) verwundert ist, dass unterschiedliche Isometriesymbole für die Verbindungen auf den beiden Seiten des Bogens eingefügt werden, obwohl die Konfiguration "symetrisch" ist.

(Darüber, dass eines der "Glue" Symbole um 180° verdreht ist, kann ich hinwegsehen. Es scheint auch in anderen Fällen manchmal Probleme mit gedrehten Symbolen zu geben. Aber die verwendeten Verbindungssymbole/Schweißnahtsymbole sollten stimmen, weil dadurch die Schweißnahtliste beeinflusst wird, sofern sie verwendet werden soll.)

Vielleicht können Sie mir noch einen Hinweis geben, wie man das Problem lösen oder umgehen könnte.

Viele Grüße

In English:

I will gladly show you the connection properties of the elbow (see picture above).

I use the PPL EndType because this also allows me to connect the elbow to the pipe using butt fusion as an alternative.

What makes me suspicious about the result on the isometric drawing that I have shown in post 1 and post 5 is that different isometry symbols are inserted for the connections on the two sides of the elbow, although the configuration is "symmetrical".

(I can overlook the fact that one of the "glue" symbols is rotated by 180°. There sometimes seem to be problems with rotated symbols. But the connection symbols / weld symbols used should be correct, because this influences the weld list if it is to be used.)

Perhaps you can give me a hint on how to solve or work around the problem.

Kind regards

[doleischLG4UV]

Does anyone else have any ideas on how the problem could be solved or avoided?

Briefly explained: I have to connect "pipe, sleeve, elbow, sleeve, pipe" and on the iso a weld symbol appears on one side of the elbow, which I have to avoid (because of the weld list).

[h_eger]

Can you provide me with your pipe spec for testing? As I cannot reproduce your problem.

[doleischLG4UV]

Hello Mr. Eger @h_eger ,

I have attached the pipe spec "Test PE GF SDR 11" I am using as a zip file. I have removed/hidden parts and sizes that are unnecessary for this problem.

My approach in the 3D model is to place the sleeve manually, which automatically removes the "Fusionweld" connection and inserts two "Glue" connections (the sleeve should be optional.)

You might also add the end type PPL for End 1 and End 2 to the "Auto sleeve joint" and then replace an existing "Fusionweld" connection with the "Auto sleeve joint" in the model.

Thank you very much

[h_eger]

@doleischLG4UV ,

Contact Autodesk Support with confidence.
It seems to be a bug.
For me it looks exactly like this

[doleischLG4UV]

Thank you very much, Mr. Eger @h_eger !

I have sent a support request to Autodesk.

I will share the support response here.

Kind regards

[doleischLG4UV · Accepted solution]

For those who are interested in this topic,
here is the answer from Autodesk Support:

"This is a reproducible behaviour of AutoCAD Plant 3D that has been informed to the Product Development Team, and a ticket has been logged with them for revision. Basically, a Fusion Weld is added to Glued fittings in Isometrics when connecting PPL to PSW.

The workflow now is that a Developer will work on this ticket and this behavior might be revised in the next product updates or releases. I cannot precise when it will be implemented but I will let you know if I hear any updates regarding this ticket.

I am sorry that we could not attend to all your expectations at the moment. The best alternative now would be to create a new end code just to connect Glued fittings. Please, see the following screencast I recorded for you showing in detail the cause and the alternative:"

Video - Connecting two fittings PPL + PSW  

Many thanks to the support for the detailed answer!

I prefer to have only one catalog component in the pipe class for a fitting so that I don't have to maintain the components twice and have uniform list entries. It is probably also easier for the 3D model designer not to have so many fittings to choose from.

My workaround for the problem, based on the answer from the support team, is therefore to give all the relevant fittings a different end code (PPLF) and to specify this additionally for both the "Fusionweld" connection and the "Glue" connection for E1. This means that a "Fusionweld" connection is always created automatically and a "Glue" connection is created when the sleeve is used manually. (It is also possible to replace a "Fusionweld" joint with an "Auto sleeve joint" if this is supplemented with E1=PPLF or PPL and E2=PPL).