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Post 1 of 31

Control Valve Issues

4130 Views, 30 Replies
10-04-2011 08:01 AM

I am having a bunch of little issues with the control valves (which I'm sure can be attributed to user inexperience).

Your help will certainly be appreciated!

 

(1) Substitution Palette

When I add a control valve, I can substitute the actuators and valves just fine, at first. However, at some point, something happens and the substitution palettes change for both the body and actuator. Where I could see replacement bodies/actuators before, now both palettes only have inline instruments (nozzles, etc). I do not know how to make it show me the actual body/actuator palettes again. I believe (not 100% sure) this switch occurs when I alter and save something in the project’s properties (even if the change is made on unrelated equipment/instruments).

 

(2) Layer Properties

I would like to put the control valve in a different layer from its annotations. My goal is to have the ability to easily print a simplified diagram without all the control information. For example, I set the properties to insert the valve (body and actuator) in 'Layer1' and annotations (discrete instrument and primary PLC symbols) in 'Layer2'. When I insert them from the palette, both the valve and the annotations default to 'Layer1'. I can manually move the annotations to ‘Layer 2’, but whenever I open-save-close the properties manager, the annotations move back to the valve layer ('Layer1').  Why? What can I do differently?

On another, somewhat related note, the layer I really want to add the valve to does not appear on the dropdown in the properties section to set the defaults. How can I add my custom layer to this default list?

 

(3) Default Valve Body

In the “Control Valve Browser”, I only get a short list of hand valves that I can select as the default, and this list does not include the one I am looking for (ball valve). I have a ball valve body in my substitution palette, so I can change it that way, but this makes one additional step. How can I make the ball valve appear on the control valve browser?

Post 2 of 31

Re: Control Valve Issues

10-11-2011 07:19 AM in reply to: mcost

(1) Substitution Palette

 

I tried to reproduce this issue, but wasn't able to using Plant 3D 2012. Just curious, which release of AutoCAD P&ID are you running?

 

(2) Layer Properties

 

It is possible to configure the layers this way. My recommendation would be to change the default layer for the control valve from "Instrument" over to "Mechanical" or any custom layer you might use for the valves.

 

That way you can freeze the instrument layer to quicky turn off all instrument annotations, but leave the control valves shown.

 

The reason why you're only seeing the default layers on the dropdown list inside the symbol properties has to do with where that list is pulling from. There is a drawing inside the folder of the project called "projSymbolStyle.dwg" which is sort of the master template for the project. It contains all the layers, blocks, linetypes, etc. for the project.

 

To add a custom layer:

 

1. Open the drawing titled projSymbolStyle.dwg from the project folder

2. Go into layer manger and add any additional layers you'd like to use

3. Save projSymbolStyle drawing and close

 

You can use the layer states mananger to save all of the layers in projSymbolStyle.dwg and then import those into the P&ID template drawing for your project. That way when you create a new drawing those new custom layers are already present on the list.

 

(3) Default Valve Body

 

As you've probably noticed the control valves are built up from two symbols. The valve body uses the available list from "Hand Valves" and the actuator comes from "Actuators" under Non Engineering Items.

 

There are few things to check in the properties when you don't see valve on the list. The first one is the "SupportedStandards" bitwise flag. If you select that property and then click the Edit button you'll see a list of standards for P&ID. You can check the boxes to allow the use of that symbol for a particular standard. If the box is cleared for the standard you selected when the project was initially setup then that symbol won't be available to use from the control valve selection list.

 

One other thing to mention on the control valves is the "Substitution" property. This true or false value defines whether or not a symbol is shown or hidden on the substitution palette.

 

 

If you have any questions, please let me know. If this is an acceptable solution, please click the "Accept as Solution" button to help others find this information during a search.

 

Thank you,

 



Jason Drew
Premium Support Specialist
Product Support
Autodesk, Inc.




If my post answers your question, please click the "Accept as Solution" button. This helps everyone find answers more quickly.
Post 3 of 31

Re: Control Valve Issues

10-11-2011 08:49 AM in reply to: jason.drew

Hi Jason,

Thanks so much for getting back to me! I attached some screenshots which may help clarify some of this.

 

(1) – Substitution Palette
I am using AutoCAD P&ID 2011, SP1.

 

To document the issue with images (like I probably should have done in my original post), I did the following:

1. I opened a new drawing; no template, imperial units.
2. Added a ball valve.
3. Converted to a control valve.
4. The substitution palettes worked just fine.
5. I opened the project properties. Changed something. Clicked okay.
6. The substitution palettes do not work right
 

(2) Layer Properties
I believe I did do as you suggested, but the valves revert back to the “equipment” layer. My steps…
1. Verified the class settings for the valve / actuator.
2. I inserted the control valve. It inserted in the “equipment” layer, as expected.
3. I added the annotation. It inserted on the “mechanical” layer, which I didn’t expect (setting was as “instrument” layer). But anyway…
4. I open the properties menu. Make an unrelated change.
5. When I go back to my drawing, both are now on the “equipment” layer.

---------------

Thanks for the information about projSymbolStyle.dwg. I will try that!


(3) Default Valve Body

I totally missed the “SupportedStandards”. This solved my issue! Thanks!

Post 4 of 31

Re: Control Valve Issues

10-13-2011 02:57 PM in reply to: mcost

Thank you for the document and update on this issue. This will help us with troubleshooting. 

 

I'm going to take a closer look at issue 1 & 2. I will keep you posted on what I find.

 

Thank you,



Jason Drew
Premium Support Specialist
Product Support
Autodesk, Inc.




If my post answers your question, please click the "Accept as Solution" button. This helps everyone find answers more quickly.
Post 5 of 31

Re: Control Valve Issues

02-13-2012 03:50 AM in reply to: mcost

Hi,

 

I was wondering if you have found a solution to question nr 1 as we have the same issue in our project...

 

Regards

 

Henrik

Post 6 of 31

Re: Control Valve Issues

02-13-2012 03:06 PM in reply to: kinteki

Henrik,

 

What version of AutoCAD P&ID are you using?

 

Also, is this a new project or was it migrated from a previous version?

 

If you have a sample project you can provide us that is exibiting this behavior that will help us to troubleshoot the problem. 

 

Thank you,



Jason Drew
Premium Support Specialist
Product Support
Autodesk, Inc.




If my post answers your question, please click the "Accept as Solution" button. This helps everyone find answers more quickly.
Post 7 of 31

Re: Control Valve Issues

02-13-2012 11:37 PM in reply to: mcost

Hi again Jason,

 

We are running AutoCAD P&ID  2011 SP1.

This is a new project, but the error also appear on the sample projects provided with the software.

 

As an example, the problem occurs when you add a custom actuator in the project properties and then try to substitute actuator/body.

 

 

Regards

 

Henrik

Post 8 of 31

Re: Control Valve Issues

02-24-2012 12:27 AM in reply to: mcost

The problem with the control valves stays at 2012 SP 1 (Plant and P&ID)

So this is a big problem.

Post 9 of 31

Re: Control Valve Issues

02-24-2012 01:11 AM in reply to: jason.drew

I just did a debug today, the problems is cause by the StyleId.


For example, when i place a control valve (Ball valve and diaphragm actuator), the body StyleId is set to the Ball Valve style id. This is the same for actuator.

 

When reopen the drawing after project properties change, both style change to the ControlValve style. Hence, you will not be able to substitute.

 

If you check the properties for the actuator, the Graphical Style is empty.

 

Autodesk, please fix this asap, i dont want to waste time writing the fix code myself.

If my post answers your question, please click the "Accept as Solution" button.

Check out my blog http://lazcad.com
Post 10 of 31

Re: Control Valve Issues

02-24-2012 07:24 AM in reply to: Rave.Tam

This issue is typically caused by an out of date SubstitutionPalettes.xml file.

 

Please try this:

 

1. Open your project folder in Windows Explorer

2. Locate SubstitutionPalettes.xml

3. Rename the file to SubstitutionPalettes.xml.old

4. Open a P&ID drawing and select any symbol in the drawing that has substitution grips

5. There will be a brief pause while the SubstitutionPalettes.xml is rebuilt

 

The substitution palettes should display the correct sybmols now.

 

Thank you,



Jason Drew
Premium Support Specialist
Product Support
Autodesk, Inc.




If my post answers your question, please click the "Accept as Solution" button. This helps everyone find answers more quickly.
Post 11 of 31

Re: Control Valve Issues

02-24-2012 07:48 AM in reply to: jason.drew

Thanks for continuing to look into this! However, I am still getting the same, incorrect substitution palette.  Smiley Sad

Post 12 of 31

Re: Control Valve Issues

02-24-2012 08:00 AM in reply to: mcost

Here no luck too. I compare the two XML files and find some differences but none of them looks like they are related to this problem.

 

P&ID was closed and reopened to countercheck. No luck.

Post 13 of 31

Re: Control Valve Issues

02-24-2012 08:02 AM in reply to: mcost

Try set Pickstyle to 0, and select the individual valve. Then insert a new control valve and select the new valve. You'll see the difference in the Properties palette, which one of the style is set to Control Valve and the new one is set to Ball Valve.

 

I'm pretty sure this is a bug. 

If my post answers your question, please click the "Accept as Solution" button.

Check out my blog http://lazcad.com
Post 14 of 31

Re: Control Valve Issues

03-21-2012 11:52 PM in reply to: Rave.Tam

Hello

 

no more answers to the incorrect substitution palette?

 

Did I miss something?

 

GSC

Plant3D 2017 German
WIN7Pro
Post 15 of 31

Re: Control Valve Issues

09-03-2012 06:17 AM in reply to: GSC_HAYA

The same substitution problem exists in P&ID 2013. Still no news?

Highlighted
Post 16 of 31

Re: Control Valve Issues

12-19-2012 05:11 PM in reply to: mcost

I'm seeing the same problem in P&ID 2013sp1.

Post 17 of 31

Re: Control Valve Issues

12-21-2012 06:05 PM in reply to: mcost

We also have this issue in our project in P&ID 2013.

If my post is a solution to your issue, click "Accept as Solution" below...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Craig Wood
CRB Consulting Engineers | Kansas City, MO, USA | LinkedIn
Post 18 of 31

Re: Control Valve Issues

10-18-2013 09:09 AM in reply to: mcost

Has this been fixed? I'm having the same problem!!!

Viktor K
Intel i7-3960X
48 GB Ram
Win-7 64bit
Quadro FX 5800
Post 19 of 31

Re: Control Valve Issues

10-21-2013 07:04 AM in reply to: composerv

This has actually been fixed! You'll need to install "AutoCAD Plant 3D Extension 1" in order for the bug to be fixed. Once this update is applied, any NEWLY CREATED control valves will not have this problem. Substitution and copying/pasting control valves will now fully work and be stable. The big caveat here is that any pre-existing control valves that were placed before the update was applied will continue to have the problems mentioned above in this thread. This update also applies only to the Plant 3D Suite, and cannot be installed on standalone P&ID.

 

I believe you must have an AutoCAD subscription in order to access the update, but you'll see it listed here:

http://www.cadstudio.cz/download

(look under "Plant 3D, P&ID")

 

Craig

 

If my post is a solution to your issue, click "Accept as Solution" below.

If my post is a solution to your issue, click "Accept as Solution" below...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Craig Wood
CRB Consulting Engineers | Kansas City, MO, USA | LinkedIn
Post 20 of 31

Re: Control Valve Issues

10-22-2013 07:55 AM in reply to: craig.wood

Really??? Autodesk fixed THEIR OWN problem for subscribers only!!!?? I would like this case to be elevated and fixed for all license holders. I know they have something extra in the download package that they want to give to subsc. only. Well, should they remove that "extension" and just release the fix only to all licensed users, so the software can do what it intended to do?

Thanks.

Viktor K
Intel i7-3960X
48 GB Ram
Win-7 64bit
Quadro FX 5800
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