whole drawing everything done in model space

[strictlyvintagesurf]

hi guys

Just would like to ask how many draftspeople do everything in model space as i have been doing drafting for over 30 years and have always done obviously the drawing is done in model space but printed everything in model space paper space was never used as the firm decided against it i did use at another firm for a small amount of time but was very frustrating to use. i will be learning to use it again to see if it has any benefits please no negative comments would like to see people thoughts and opinions thanks.

[AVCPlugins]

Indeed, the practice of hammering nails with a microscope is widespread. I can't find a reasonable explanation for this. Perhaps some engineers are paid by the hour and it pays them to spend an hour printing each sheet separately from the model, instead of clicking Publish button. And they make separate flatshots for each view of 3D product. And then manually redo these flatshots every time the model changes...

I don't see any other explanation why not use layouts and viewports (or modelDoc views).

[TomBeauford]

I have been drafting with AutoCAD for over 30 years and have obviously always plotted in Paper Space since it was added in R11 in 1990 to make plotting easier. Only explanation for plotting in Model Space I can imagine is someone who used AutoCAD before that and hasn't learned anything more about AutoCAD in the past 33 years. Tiny handful of those who insist on plotting in Model Space produce half the questions on most forum about plotting issues.

[pkolarik]

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@TomBeauford wrote:

I have been drafting with AutoCAD for over 30 years and have obviously always plotted in Paper Space since it was added in R11 in 1990 to make plotting easier. Only explanation for plotting in Model Space I can imagine is someone who used AutoCAD before that and hasn't learned anything more about AutoCAD in the past 33 years. Tiny handful of those who insist on plotting in Model Space produce half the questions on most forum about plotting issues.

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Same here. Been using AutoCAD for over 30 years now. When I first started here we were doing everything in model space. Then paper space came out. We didn't switch right away, as initially paper space was literally nothing more than an extra step for plotting due to how automated (LSP routines) and customized our plotting setup was at the time. Once annotative text came out, then we finally switched over.

These days, basically only the titleblock resides in the layout tab and everything else is in model space. It's comical watching the younger people in our office dig up old drawings from the early 90's and have no idea how to plot the all-model space files.

[dany_rochefort]

@strictlyvintagesurf   The type of drafting that is done often dictactes whether or not they use exclusively modelspace. For example, electrical or hydraulic schematic drawings or always Not To Scale, and its all done in model 95% of the time.  Any type of precison drafting relying on scales like Civil, Structural, Mecanichal... should definetily be done with templates in paperspace for various reasons.  

[TheCADnoob]

To echo @dany_rochefort the content of the drawing is key for my firm's drawings. 

Schematic-type drawings (P&ID, PFD, Electrical Onelines, Loops etc etc) are usually done in model space, but civil drawings are done with paper space. It also depends on how you manage files. I know some of our clients have all their schematic drawings in one file and some have each drawing in a separate file. 

Part of the question too is the life the drawing live after creation. I worked for several years for an owner-operator and their document management system required everything to be turned over in model space regardless of how the drawing was created. This meant any future revisions to that work were done in that model space even though the drawings may have been created initially paper space. 

Luckily AutoCAD is flexible enough to handle all those situations. I do question though why people dont take advantage of the efficiency that can be gained by using the model space paper space relation, but I have seen plenty of reason (good and bad) why it doesn't happen. 

[AVCPlugins]

Why would an electrician need to adjust the printable area and all other parameters every time he prints? What prevents him from using such a simple and convenient tool for multiple and multi-sheet printing as Layout+Viewport? Is there any reasonable reason? There is no extra charge for using this tool. The layout taken from the template allow you not to waste a second of extra time. I sincerely do not understand why electricians, hydraulics and other schematic engineers should complicate their lives and refuse conveniences?

[TheCADnoob]

I can tell you one reason, the SME usually aren't the ones doing the printing haha. It's the poor intern/CAD monkey doing the printing. They still take advantage of the template layout in the batch plot though they just apply it from the batch plot dialog.

For us though, we do a lot of brownfield work so it is a crap shoot for the documentation on any given project. 

[dany_rochefort]

@AVCPlugins Electrical drawings for example have tons of components that are interconnected by wiring and you need to have all these drawings side by side for a smooth workflow.  When 1 wire leaves one page, it can appear on multiple different pages and connect to multiple different components within the same project. Keep in mind that ''all wires come and go from page to page'' in a constellation type arrangement rather than a linear one.  So its better that have 30-40 drawings in modelspace side by side than in a sheet set. 

That being said, you can still utilize layouts and their advantages. It rarely done in these types of drawings tho because the advantages of seeing the whole picture ''at a glance'' in model outweighs the benefits of usings layouts.    

[leeminardi]

Reading this thread brought me back 45 years ago! At the time I was working for a CAD company that was in the early stages of developing a 3D system targeted for mechanical engineers. The company’s then primary CAD product was used for printed circuit board design and manufacture. I hope you don’t mind if I provide some history.
This week of March in 1978 I missed a meeting due to the birth of my daughter so I remember the date well. The purpose of the meeting was to discuss the challenges of addressing the dual needs of creating a CAD system for 3D mechanical design (modeling) and drafting (2D drawings). We sought to determine how the data captured for 3D models could be most efficiently used to create engineering drawings that met drafting standards.
The attached document is a reprint of an article I wrote a few years later to explain the differences and similarities of models and drawings and to promote the CAD system for the company I worked for at the time. By the late 1980’s Autodesk realized the need to better address the dichotomy and implemented Model space and Paper space. It’s interesting to look at newer mechanical CAD systems and how they address this need. For example, Inventor has one mode for creating 3D part models (.ipt), another for assemblies (.iam) and a third for making engineering drawings (.idw). The assembly module relies on the part models and although you can reposition parts in an assembly you must go to the part modeler to edit a part. The drafting module works directly from the part models. With Inventor, AutoCAD’s model and paper space are replaced by these three distinct environments.
Although many of the comments in this thread target the plotting advantages of paper space and layouts, the primary incentive for its implementation was to address the unique conceptual differences of models and drawings but plotting benefits were a nice byproduct.

[RobDraw]

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@strictlyvintagesurf wrote:

please no negative comments

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Why limit the data?

In fact, the way that social media works is making a comment like that is an invitation for said comments as exemplified by the first response.

I've seen many different standards and they all have their merits. I've had to learn that sometimes it's not about best practices but rather more about the users and how THEY can be efficient.