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Viewbase dimensioning issue...

beyoungjr
Advisor

Viewbase dimensioning issue...

beyoungjr
Advisor
Advisor

Hi,

I like the ViewBase commands and have taught them for 5 or 6 semesters.  There has however been a persistent problem that I used to wrangle with when using viewports and still plagues me in ViewBase dimensioning.

 

Please find the attached file from a previous Cadalyst column at http://www.cadalyst.com/cad/autocad/yet-another-way-go-3d-2d-autocad-22137?page_id=2

 

I have placed the model into my template so as to use predictable settings that I am used to (.0625 & .125 dimension text, arrows, gaps, etc...)

 

Observe my dimensioning on the ANSI A layout (all base views are full scale).  Notice in the top view that I used the Centermark command to manually place a centermark on one hole and used the diamter dimension to acquire the centermark on the other hole.  Both look appropriate for full scale.

 

Now, observe my dimensioning on the ANSI A (2) layout (all base views are 1:2 scale).  The diameter dimension appropriately scaled the centermark (albeit too small) but the maually placed cenetrmark is using the full scale data from the dimension style and not applying scale at all.  It's the same size as the centermark in the first layout.

 

This occurs in any scale over or under 1:1 and has always been a problem on viewports when dimensioning in Paper Space and not in an activated viewport (MSPACE).  Now that Base views are in play there is no option for MSPACE dimensions in a viewport so manipulation appears to be the only resolution.

 

I've longs asked for "Associative Center Marks" in ADESK wish lists and forums.  Many users used to just nag me about not puting the dimensions on the Paper Space layout and instead activate the viewport and dimension inside.  That isn't possible in this case.  I wish Autodesk would simply create a 2nd centermark command that places a mark like placing a diameter or radius dimension.  The mark would scale as dictated by the view scale and potentially like the viewport scale if integrated in that direction as well.  They could also add a variable or step that permits the user to angle the centermark in the process, like when placing the centermarks on full or partial bolt patterns (in lieu of rotating, arraying, or other methods).

 

Your feedback and advice would be very much appreciated.

 

Thanks,

 

Blaine Young

CAD Adjunct Faculty

Frederick Community College

 


Blaine Young
Senior Engineering Technician, US Army

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dbroad
Mentor
Mentor

I agree. These are valid defects.  Have you reported them through the bug report process?  The associative centerline would be a feature request but the center "line" option is not acting correctly.

Architect, Registered NC, VA, SC, & GA.
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beyoungjr
Advisor
Advisor

I'll have to look into this bug report process. I never thought about it being a bug because most folks just beat me up about it on viewports prior to ViewBase.
You state center "line" when what I was speaking of was the Center marks, with line option.  Manual center marks of this type are 6 line entities whereas the center mark that's included with diameter and radius dims is placed as a block (you know that though).

 

Associative center"mark" is what I think I want to request.

So what'd you mean by center "line"?  You mention defective but I we could get the new one I'd just call the current one "old"Guiño

 

dimstyle ctrmrk.jpg

 

 


Blaine Young
Senior Engineering Technician, US Army

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dbroad
Mentor
Mentor

The center mark has two options: center mark and center line.  The cente line option is defective in this case because it does not draw larger than the circle.

Architect, Registered NC, VA, SC, & GA.
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Dan.Scales
Alumni
Alumni

Hi,

 

The behaviour that you are seeing occurs if the circle being dimensioned intersects the gap between the mark and the line. It can be reproduced with any circle and isn't actually related the the viewbase command:

 

Mark.png

 

If you need the full lined center mark than you can override size of specific dimension via the properties palette.

 

MARK.gif

 

Hope this helps.

 

Dan



Dan Scales
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beyoungjr
Advisor
Advisor

Hi Dan,

I appreciate you chiming in on this.  The point you illustrate is as old as AutoCAD itself and has nothing to do with the problem I'm trying to address.  Your point validly addresses the case of a smaller circle affecting the center mark size of a diameter or radius dimension, as well as the lame centermark command.  If the circle/arc is too small for the indicated size of the centermark the line portions are simply omitted (very predicable and expected).

 

In my example (PLEASE download the drawing I initially uploaded) you will see that an arc or circle that is scaled up via the Viewbase command (or even the viewport scale method) results in lame centermark that WILL NOT insert per the scaled view.  The diameter or radius dimension is the only way of getting the proper centermark, and we do not place redundant hole dimensions for the same sizes.  Instead we should be placing centermarks that can be cleanly dimensioned to. 

 

I have been back & forth with a German on my subscription support case for a few weeks.  He keeps directing me to use the diametric dimension for every hole and I keep stating that it is not proper practice.  My last email requested that he explain how to properly dimension a bolt-circle on a non-full-scale base view.  The circles should all have centermarks but they should be oriented properly and I shouldn't have to place 8 diameter dims for 8 holes.

 

I've been drafting since 1980 and using ACAD since 1985 (5-1/4 floppies w/o hard drives... the days).  We try to avoid redundant dimensioning at all costs.

 

The German tells me this is an enhancement request and I replied... No Kidding!  Viewbase command was an enhancement and dimensining needs to behave accordingly.  I suppose the next suggestion will be to create a center mark block that I can insert with scale.  So then the centermark size (gap spaces) will sacle as well and no proportinality will be mainatined.

 

I'm sure this will require work by Autodesk but why not create a simple "Dynamic Centermark" that behaves exactly like the one included in the diameter and radius dimensions, and maybe even allows orientation (angular) upon placement?  This new feature could also permit users to remove individual "extension legs" as desired for partial arc dimensioning (we turn the centermark off for the dimeter dim now and adda lame centermark for this where we can delete a leg).

 

I have submitted this on the wish list and bug list but I would really love to hear that Autodesk is truly considering it.  Maybe I need to get on the Beta Testers list but I really don't have time to devote to that.

 

Thanks again for chiming in,

Blaine

 


Blaine Young
Senior Engineering Technician, US Army

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Dan.Scales
Alumni
Alumni

Hi Blaine,

 

OK, I understand the actual issue now.

 

I do have a possible work flow that might help.

 

  • Create a new dimension style
  • Edit the new DIMSTYLE:
    • Lines tab =  suppress Dim line1 and Dim line2
    • Text tab = Set Text colour to 255.255.255
    • Text tab = Set Text height to 0.00001

Now if you place a radial dimension using this dimstyle an annotative mark will be placed with no leader and invisible text.

 

I understand that this is not perfect, but maybe it will help.

 

Thanks,

Dan



Dan Scales
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beyoungjr
Advisor
Advisor
WooHoo! That's so funny!
I successfully did that months ago just to prove to a colleague that it could be done. Nice to know my warped ideas (er uh "Workflows") are not unique to just me;)

So if you can simply tweak dimension properties to accomplish the result why can they just create a new command to just omit those details and keep the center mark. Id even accept rotating that result after placing it for alignment.

It seems like such a simple notion but so many forum users have bashed me on other postings for wanting this in Paper Space years ago.

Thank You for following the chain,
Blaine

PS. I asked for a solution and you are the first person who has really expressed a true understanding and tried to offer a workable solution. Thanks for that but I'll keep trying to get Autodesk to correct the shortcoming.

 


Blaine Young
Senior Engineering Technician, US Army

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Dan.Scales
Alumni
Alumni

Hi Blaine,

 

Yes. the workaround is definitely an unusual one Emoticono feliz

 

It has been passed over to our developers so hopefully they will be able to address it in some future release.

 

I also think it would be worth posting it as a wish list:

 

https://www.augi.com/wishlist/

 

Thanks,

Dan

 

 



Dan Scales
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