Ribbon vs Toolbars

[ParishSouthBdx]

Is it safe to say that there are commands/tools/etc that are on the RIBBON which cannot be found on any toolbar?

[klaus.schumann · Accepted solution]

Hi @ParishSouthBdx.

That's correct. The Ribbon has been available for a few releases now and the Toolbars which are available are no longer evolving as new features become available in new releases.

[acbsdesign]

Get rid of the ribbon, make toolbars resizable, not just large and small size, but with mutilple sizes,and let them stay easy to customize the way they have  always hbben, and the user won't need anything else.

Whoever gave the idea for the ribbon is probably just a deveopler-manager, but in no case he or she is a fast-working paid per click/project  person.

[owen66]

if you're paid-per-click, you should really be using commands for everything. it's just as time consuming to click a button on a toolbar as it is to click a button on a ribbon.

[acbsdesign]

This does not make any sense.

A command is rarely just one click except x, c, CTR+S etc, just a few.

In Advance steel commands look like: 

 _AstM5DetailStylesManagerNew

Start typing it, I will be 3 miles ahead untill you execute it.

Point and click using toolbars is proven to be the fastest way.

People will speak and developers and uncle's  MS team will hear, they will reinvent the toolbars. 

[acbsdesign]

Click to a toolbar is ONE click, browsing through the ribbon panels-and after that clicking to execute the command is another.

Lousy ribbon idea, I do not know a decent ACAD user to like it, and to use ONLY ribbon.

Currently I use a combination and it is far faster than the original ribbon by Autodesk.

It is more than obvious ribbon is constructed by amateurs. 

Yes, it is good we can customize, but why bother to deal with ribbon on a first place-just because Microsoft decided it is best for all?

Again-does not make sense,

[owen66]

i guess i don't know what _AstM5DetailStylesManagerNew does (or anything in the Steel version), but for normal drafting in standard AutoCAD, i can key in commands faster than a user can move their mouse to a button and then back to the canvas to draw. the biggest problem is the motor memory of your hand - your keybaord keys are always in the same position so you build the smae movement over and over again. using a mouse, your cursor is always in different places thus requiring a slightly different movement each time. this is why i suspect cad drafters have their mouse sensitivity cranked to crazy degrees 🙂 - to minimize the movement and thus the differences in motor memory.

i would say i can draft maybe 95% of what i need using commands (and used to routinely make myself work in CLEANSCREEN mode). it might also come from my first job where the CAD manager had all the common drafting commands configured to fall under your left hand so you would never have to raise your palm to go type a key on teh right side of the keyboard. left hand was keys, right hand was cursor. it was crazy to get used to, but once you did, drafting was super fast and easy.

should also note that i do the same with Windows - alts, shifts, tabs, super keys... maybe its just that my motor skills suck and i love the kayboard 🙂

EDIT: like these posts - i should be able to hit TAB, ENTER and expect that the "Post" button is the next choice in focus on this form. alas...  😞

[dgorsman]

For basic drafting, sure - keyboard command are probably fastest.  Even more so with command completion, PGP aliases, and the like.  But once you get to the more advanced design tools the software handles a lot of the mechanics of line, circle, arc, change layer, etc., freeing the user to spend more time thinking about the design aspect.  The tools and data are more complex, and it makes more sense to use buttons, drop-downs, and sliders for control.

Those tools are frequently contextual based - pick an object, and the Ribbon switches to tools approrpiate to that object (array is a good basic example of that).  Start a command, and additional Ribbon content is available (REFEDIT is a good example of that).  Civil3D makes extensive use of this paradigm.

And for what its worth, Ribbon panels can be torn off and used as super-toolbars for those who want floating toolbars.

[acbsdesign]

Agree, with one condition-make the panels more dynamic,

they feel somehow heavy,

toolbars were easy to slide, re-call, modify, customize etc.

Ribbon is not.

It feels constraining.

The only thing that I would improve in toolbars is size to be variable, not just small or large.

10 years from now we will see them this way, will be called the 'NEW MICROSOFT... Easy to use, User friendly'...whatever name they will put, but ribbon is not going to last for a long time.