plotting at 1=1 mm

[Moshe-A]

Guys Hi,

i do not know if this ever been disscussed here (atleast i never seen it here).

in our region area most of users are captive of plotting at plot scale 1=1 mm in Layout whereas their model space in cm

the problem with that is:

they set viewport scale to be 1:10  (zoom 1/10xp) where actually they need 1:100

set viewport scale to be 1:5 (zoom 1/5xp) where actually they need 1:50

set viewport scale to be 1:1 (zoom 1/5xp) where actually they need 1:10

.....

.....

for years i have been preaching them to change the bad habit and define their layouts to be syncrinized with modelspace e.g in CM and plot at scale 10=1 (which is 1:1 in cm) but have a tiny luck.

the exchange from this is:

set viewport scale to be 1:100 where actually 1:100 is needed

set viewport scale to be 1:50 where actually 1:50 is needed

set viewport scale to be 1:1 where actually 1:1 is needed

.....

.....

this is more correct, more suitable, more logical to do - am i right?!

now one user who oppose me says if he adopt my 10=1 plot scale he could not use 'scale lineweight' anymore cause he offen needs to plot a 1:100 drawing at 1:250/1:500/1:1000 scale and he uses scale lineweight to shrink line width accordingly.

in my method he would get an opposite results.

so he challenged me this week - find me an alternative to scale lineweight and i will fluid with 10=1

i did suggested a designated ctb (with thin lineweights) but this yet did not conviced him.

have you Experts more Ideas?

thanks,

Moshe

[leothebuilder]

Setting your viewport scale greater does not scale your lineweights.

If you use a CTB plot style and you have color yellow set to plot 0.35 mm lineweight it is going to plot 0.35 mm no matter what your viewport scale.

Example:

You have a drawing with a floor plan which is displayed in a viewport at scale 1:100 in layout space with an A1 size titleblock.

Now you want to plot this drawing to say an A2 size sheet of paper.

In the plot dialog box, select your paper size, select window an pick two corners of your A1 size sheet.

Select Fit to paper and select the check box "scale line weights".

If you have this same floor plan and you want to display this in two different viewports, one at 1:100 and the other at 1:250

create the two separate viewports and in the (active) 1:250 scale viewport change the plot styles, or colors to plot thinner.

If you want an enlarged piece of floor plan at 1:10, again create a separate viewport and change the plot style or color

to plot heavier (within the active viewport)

[ToanDN]

Sorry but I think you and your chalenger both do not fully understand how scale lineweight works.  Think of it as a photocopy machine.  You make a 200% enlarged copy, everything is scaled up by 200%, a one milimeter-wide line becomes a two milimeter-wide line.  It has nothing to do with viewport scale, or whether your model is at 1:1 or not.

So, it should work the same for both his and your ways of plotting.

[Moshe-A]

ToanDN,

when i said the user offen needs to plot a 1:100 drawing at 1:500 i meant he changes the plot scale from 10=1 to 2=1 only

(he does not change noting else) and doing so with scale lineweights enabled  would result all line weight to be scale up 2 times thicker

the purpose in doing so is only for quick reviewing for his project team leader.

Moshe

[ToanDN]

I know what you mean.  That is the way I plot reduced copies if I need to.

So, to make it clear, how does his (final?) print @ 10=1 look?  Is it with correct line weights or everything is 10 times thicker?

Anyhow, I am on the same boat with you that it is better to have viewport scales set correctly and plot at 1:1.

[kasperwuyts]

Post Edited because I suddenly realised the essence of the problem:

So, say he wants to plot a drawing that is 1:100 in scale, but he wants to plot it 1:200 to fit on a standard paper sheet.
In his current setup, he has a layout with a viewport set to 1:10, (1mm : 10cm, as crazy as that is)
He sets the scale of his layout to 1 mm = 2 units (10 mm printed = 1 cm drawn), and checks the 'scale lineweights' box. Now his lineweights are half as thick, which is what he would want.

In a normal, logical setup, he has a viewport that he would set to 1:100. (which is a correct, intuitive setup), and in his plot settings, he would change the scale to be 10mm = 2 units (aka 1cm printed = 2cm drawn, aka the exact intuitive thing of what he wants to achieve, namely plotting his layout twice as small). 

This however, means that now his lineweights are scaled up factor 5, instead of down factor 2, which is indeed a problem.

There are some silly workarounds I guess. Creating a plot style table for plotting half line weights, for example (if you use ctb tables at least) But then, where does it stop? Suddenly he needs it plotted five times as small instead of two.

Simply disabling plotting with lineweights would probably make it look bad.

[Moshe-A]

the user is still plot at 1=1 for 1:100 and change it to 1=5 for 1:500 with scale line weights enabled

the line weights comes perfect

it's me that urge him to advance to 10=1 (so we are not in the same boat)

[kasperwuyts]

"that it is better to have viewport scales set correctly and plot at 1:1."
Probably a communication error, but the way i see it, having those two conditions met means you need to draw in in mm, which is not ideal for architectural work.

[Moshe-A]

the only way to solve this is in the hand of Autodesk

when enabling 'scale line weights' would give us a new editbox to enter the scale factor - how about that???

[leothebuilder]

Plotting 1:1 is just that.

Doesn't matter if your drawing has been drawn in mm, cm. meters, inches, or cubits.

In Australia it is common to use mm in architectural work, in Europe it's cm for architectural.

[leothebuilder]

When you select "fit to paper" and the "scale lineweights" the "fit to paper" scale is applied to the lineweights. 

[kasperwuyts]

@leothebuilder

yes, and if your layout scale has to compensate for the fact that your drawing units are cm instead of mm, then checking that 'scale lineweight' box will increase your lineweight by factor ten of what it needs to be. That's exactly the OP's problem.

The elegant yet tedious solution is to always use xrefs for your plots. That way you can easily import a drawing that uses cm as units inside a drawing using mm.

[leothebuilder]

The elegant yet tedious solution is to always use xrefs for your plots. That way you can easily import a drawing that uses cm as units inside a drawing using mm.

I don't think your xref solution is tediuos, it the best solution.

[kasperwuyts]

I would find it tedious to have to create a new DWG everytime i make the layouts for a drawing. Not to mention always having to send the dwg's together, dealing with clients that don't know how to deal with them, having to switch between files whenever you want to do a decent preview of the finished drawing when working on them...

[Moshe-A]

yes but fit to paper is not a real scale

[ToanDN]

I think there is a disconnection between drawing unit and layout unit in AutoCAD.  If the drawing unit is cm then the layout Plot Scale of 1:1 should have been 1=1cm, not 1=1mm.

If your users don't have any big problems the way they are doing it now (I can only think of Live View Title reporting the actual viewport scale), I say leave it.  Otherwise you would have to have multiple Plot Style tables to accomodate reduced/enlarged plots.

I remember when I worked with metric, we drew in mm but dimensions was setup to cm so we didn't have this problem.

[Moshe-A]

I think there is a disconnection between drawing unit and layout unit in 

oh really? you only discovered this now? i'm living this since autocad was born

Autodesk would do us a great big favor if they add 1cm units to the plot

If your users don't have any big problems the way they are doing it now  -  I say leave it.

ofcourse they do not have problems with it (I do)

what about the fake viewport scale they set? 1:10 for 1:100, 1:5 for 1:50, 1:1 for 1:10

what about the young autocad users generation that wants to learn how to do this right?

so what if they are accustom to this for years?  what is the big difference between here? none, 1=1 mm and 10=1 cm? both are 1:1

how come it is easy for all to remember by heart that 1:10 is 1:100 and 1:5 is 1:50 and 1:2.5 is 1:25

but can not accept that 1:100 is 1:100, 1:25 is 1:25???

i also notice that you know Revit? when you define your model in cm how does revit set your sheet view units?

when you drag a plan view at 1:100 scale to sheet? what is the viewport scale - 1:10?

why in Revit it can work right and to AutoCAD not???

[leothebuilder]

 Whoah.....settle down:

DDUNITS at the command line....set linear units to Decimal and select Centimeters from the drop down.

If you want to set up strange scaled viewports to suit your workflow, that's your perogative.

Autocad allows you to do things whichever way you want.....even if they don't make sense.

I am not here to defend Autocad and Autodesk, but serously...............!!

As for your young Autocad users, make sure they are trained correctly.

Revit forum is here:  http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-architecture/bd-p/133

[Anonymous]

IMO. It really seems to me that the problem here is the users, not AutoCAD. Unfortunately your dealing with some stubborn ones. 

[leothebuilder]

It really seems to me that the problem here is the users, not AutoCAD. Unfortunately your dealing with some stubborn ones. 

You hit the nail right on the head.

First they dig a hole, then rant and rave cuz they can't get out of the hole.