Performance problem when opening file through WAN

[duboisF4V94]

Hi,

We experienced a lot of performance problem when we try to open DWG file through WAN. I guess the problem is the same on LAN but due to better network on LAN, the problem is less embarrassing.

We use client Windows 7 and 10 and server 2008R2 and 2012. In better case, SMB 2.1 is used. We don't have any problem with other file. Like a good network administrator, I'm using a lot of Wireshark to solve some problems. I can say Autocad (and DWG Trueview) have a weird operation. It seems like it make a lot of loop of Request File on the file herself and her parent folder after downloading the file.

I also tried to use branchcache but the problem is the same. The file is not download because ever in cache of the client but the loops are always here. We have the problem on all clients and opening a little file is so long and use a lot of the network in comparison with other desktop application.

I found a lot of performance problem of using Autocad on network but never the problem was explained and maybe solved.

Is a normal running for an expensive application ?

[rkmcswain]

AutoCAD certainly does some unorthodox things with it's i/o...

How big of a pipe do you have on your WAN?

[duboisF4V94]

Tested on 8 Mbit/s SDSL on a side and 20 Mbits/s synchronisation fiber on other side. Opening a bigger PDF take less time.

During a test, opening a DWG took more than 15 minutes of loop...

[rkmcswain]

I presume if you do a straight up file copy of the DWG, it copies across the WAN in an acceptable time?

So let's assume this is a CAD issue. What version of what product are you working with here? All the S/P's and updates applied?

[duboisF4V94]

Exactly ! A copy of the file and open the file on the local disk is widely faster than opening it through the WAN.

We're actually using Autocad 2014 with SP1. Is there another update ? I didn't found update for SMB problem for Autocad 2014. Can someone have the same problem with another version of Autocad ?

[duboisF4V94]

Is nobody impacted ?

[rculp]

Editing graphics heavy applications over a WAN is always problematic.  Packet size, packet verification, outside traffic, and distance all work against speed when opening an AutoCAD file for editing.  The easy, and possibly trite, answer is don't, don't edit AutoCAD files via a WAN, it's slow.  Work the files locally and use the WAN to replicate files and file structure between separate locations.  There are a host of applications available to automate file/structure replication.

[pendean]

AutoCAD touches the source file constantly (help you avoid the read-only error when saving): so it's not the same as copying a file over once and done (or opening a PDF).

Since more current versions of AutoCAD are more complex but basically behave the same towards files, there is no performance gain in upgrading.

[duboisF4V94]

I accept that Autocad constantly work with the original and editing this type of file via a WAN take more time but is Autodesk doesn't want to correct the interface with SMB protocol that seams completely out when used via a WAN ???

We talk anyway about a professional software and expensive. Add a replication solution to it is again more expensive (more storage and maybe a licensed software for the replication) while Autodesk have just to correct this to satisfy the customer and to sale a finished product.

[rculp]

The issue can't be fixed by Autodesk, the problem remains with packet communication (SMB or CIFS) over distances and the amount of traffic necessary for AutoCAD to edit a file.  When open for edit, an AutoCAD file is CONSTANTLY pinged, there is CONSTANT communication between the application and the file, each action become a packet that must be addressed by whatever protocol is in place and that data must be communicated to the host and back prior to the next packet. The farther those two are apart the longer that takes.  Even your PDF example, it takes MUCH longer to simply VIEW a PDF between servers that are 100 miles apart than it does to VIEW the same PDF from a local hard-drive.  Autodesk can fix a lot of things, but the speed of light (or of electrons through copper) is pretty much out out of their scope.  

Your options are limited to living with the degradation in speed caused by distance, or shortening that distance.  Autodesk has left how you do that up to you, and there are numerous options from which to choose, many of which may fit your needs better than others.  Personally, I don't want my CAD vendor getting in the way of my WAN server protocols that must manage a lot more than just CAD files.  

And yes, being in business is expensive, that shouldn't be a surprise.  Spreading that business out over wide distances may have its advantages, but it ADDS the expense of communicating (file maintenance/management/security) over those distances.

[pendean]

WAN is the wrong choice for live AutoCAD editing: not much more to say really. You can blame the software developer, or take the advise of seasoned users in here trying to help you out. You get to pick, it's a free choice.

Good luck.

[TOMGODFREY5016]

I don't know why autocad insists to edit files remotely. How simple would it be to mark a file as read-only, copy it locally, edit locally and save back to the server?  It boggles the mind how simple this fix would be, but yet, here we are.

[pendean]

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@TOMGODFREY5016 wrote:

I don't know why autocad insists to edit files remotely. How simple would it be to mark a file as read-only, copy it locally, edit locally and save back to the server?  It boggles the mind how simple this fix would be, but yet, here we are.

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Things always look easy from the outside 🙂

EDIT: read this https://www.autodesk.com/support/technical/article/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles/Managing-data-refe... 

[duboisF4V94]

First post in 2017, last post in 2023. It's not easy but it seems nothing have been done...

[duboisF4V94]

First post in 2017, last post in 2023. It's not easy but it seems nothing have been done...

[rkmcswain · Accepted solution]

@TOMGODFREY5016 wrote:

I don't know why autocad insists to edit files remotely. How simple would it be to mark a file as read-only, copy it locally, edit locally and save back to the server?  It boggles the mind how simple this fix would be, but yet, here we are.

It's not that simple. There are solutions out there for doing this, and they are million if not billion dollar companies. See PEER, NASUNI, PANZURA, etc., etc.

[pendean · Accepted solution]

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@duboisF4V94 wrote:

First post in 2017, last post in 2023. It's not easy but it seems nothing have been done...

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Solutions have existed for years, you just have to buy into them. I'll get you started here for Autodesk solutions https://www.autodesk.com/support/technical/article/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles/Managing-data-refe... 

WAN remains inadequate for intense CAD programs, why aren't you asking for better WAN? oh wait, that's too hard, they don't make easy user forums for that. Got it.

[duboisF4V94]

Web needs WAN. Autocad doesn't support WAN so it's not the problem o the WAN. Our WAN is sufficient in broadband and latency and we don't have any issue with other app.

Don't search problems everywhere and accept that Autocad is not aware to big company unless another solution. Autocad is expensive and for business so it need to be a professional solution. Create a malfunction and sell a solution in another app is a business...

Why is it so difficult to download a file and open it in cache (temp folder) and upload it at every save ? Sorry for this, but your dev need to review this.

[TOMGODFREY5016 · Accepted solution]

Wow, there sure are a lot of you coming to the side of Autodesk. AutoCAD has been around for decades, files have been networked for 4 of them. But still they insist on clogging up LAN and now WAN with data and 10,000 SMB requests per drawing, plus the wear and tear on file servers.
With Covid pushing people out of the office, and many offices going to the cloud, AutoCAD should catch up with the times. They should focus on AutoCAD for at least 1/10 of the time that they spend on REVIT for architecture. That is a great program that they bought.
I am a bit tired of paying fees for a program that basically hasn't significantly changed our processes in 30 years other than to just cost more and more. Architects on the other hand have had leaps and bounds of significant improvements.
I will be putting in a replication server, at my house, just so I can overcome AutoCADs deficiencies. Another $3,000 wasted.