Message saying lines do not intersect with the cutting edge, when they DO

[Anonymous]

I have yet another problem.  I used to have an add-on programme that performed functions like T-junctions, inserting doors, and numerous other great things.  However, it will not work in autocad 2017, so I'm having to find ways to do things that used to take me no time at all.  Cutting doors into walls is now a mission, and it's not helped by the fact that autocad now ALWAYS allows me to trim the first line, and then says the other line I want to trim "Does not intersect with the cutting edge."  I have done everything I can - I've measured the lines to make sure they are the same length as the width of the wall, but I've extended the lines just in case they are off by a tiny amount. I've flattened the drawing to make sure the z co-ordinates are all zero - and I STILL get the "does not intersect" message.  All I can do is pull them way past the line and then trim them back once I've trimmed the opening.

So far I am not at all impressed with this programme.  I wouldn't mind if it was filled with new and exiting features, but so far everything just seems to have got more cumbersome.  I've gone back to the classic hatch dialog box, because the new one is such a mess, and I am about to do the same (if it's possible) with the Mtext box.  Why on earth they took the exit button and placed it where one now have to search for it is beyond me.  Same thing with the block editor.  I'm sort of getting used to finding the the exit buttons, but why on earth should I have to?  Polylines now have a life of their own, and sometimes add bits to themselves for no reason.  I'm constantly doing web searches for things like the fact that it told me "it couldn't offset that object" when I tried to offset a polyline.  I discovered that I had to perform 'overkill' to get rid of any extra points.  And since that same polyline worked in my previous version, presumably 2017 decided I didn't know what I was doing and changed it.

[TheCADnoob]

Have you contacted the creator of the add on concerning the issue of non compatibility?

[Sofia.Xanthopoulou]

Hi @Anonymous,

are you aware that you can activate some of the options for trim/extend. E.g. Edge or Project.

For further referenced please read the Article.

Regards

-----------------------------
Please accept as solution if my post fully resolves your issue, or reply with additional details if the problem persists.

[Anonymous]

Instead of breaking lines when inserting doors, try building dynamic door blocks with embedded wipeouts to occlude the lines.  That way moving the door always moves the "gap".

[john.vellek]

Hi @Anonymous

I agree that dynamic door blocks is the way to go. I personally don't like the wipeouts though as it is hard to show extent of flooring, door sills, or other conditions.

As Sofia pointed out, there are multiple ways to get to things in AutoCAD.  Why don't we start with a concise list of questions and I will do my best to help you find  ways to work that make you comfortable.

[Anonymous]

Hi, Cadnoob

Unfortunately they are no longer in business, otherwise I would have!

[Anonymous]

I like the idea of the wipeouts in the blocks - I'm just mulling over how it will affect other things, whether there are times when I need to show the gaps.  I'm thinking that if I put the wipeout onto a separate layer, then I can switch that layer on or off, depending on whether I need it or not.  Cills, etc. could be brought 'above' the wipeout, I think.  I will need to experiment with it.  I could even make a separate block of the wipeout itself, because I have a seemingly infinite number of door blocks, but only a few widths.  All my door blocks have their insertion point at the centre of each door, (makes mirroring etc. much simpler) which would make such a thing possible - I'll have to look into it.

John - here are some of the things that I don't like about 2017:

I have been working on Autocad since version 9, so I have a lot of experience.  It makes me very frustrated when, anytime I have to upgrade, instead of making my life easier, it just causes me huge irritation.

- I don't like Autocad's Layer Manager - I never have.  I had the old Express Tools LMAN, which I find far better, and when my computer was struck by lightning I thought I'd lost it- the new Express Tools doesn't have the LMAN.lsp, and I decided I'd have to get used to the new one.  But it doesn't tell me when a layer isn't defined, it just does its own thing.  I didn't stick with it long enough to get to know more of it, I found a copy of the LMAN.lsp which I have now installed. 

- I don't like the way the selection for erase is the colour 8.  I am going to have to find out how to change that, meaning another search of the internet, because I use the colour 8 a lot, and I can't see when it has selected something in that colour.  I far preferred the old system - why did it change?

- I don't like the way the automatic selection for the stretch command is a window box instead of a crossing box.  I can always go from top right to bottom left (giving me the crossing box), but very often I need to stretch using a bottom left to top right crossing window - I don't like having to pick that option first instead of it being the default.  I'm also left wondering how many people only use a window box when stretching?  I know I've never done so.

- I don't like the way things that used to be easily to hand in dialogue boxes are now strewn across the ribbon at the top - this applies to the block editor, too.  I'm not used to using Mtext because the lisp routines I had for text (wrap, copy contents, swap contents, rejustify, change text style, height, width, rotation etc.) made using text much easier than using mtext, so I'm having to get used to this, too.  In the version I used in the past, Mtext was neatly in a dialogue box which was easy to access.  Now, finding anything is a mission and I'm constantly picking the wrong thing.  I found a way to get the old hatch dialog box back, I just need to find if it's also possible to get the old Mtext one back.  Another search.

- When I go to the cui to customise anything, particularly add a new toolbar, when I exit from that it rearranges everything on my profile.  Instead of making the new toolbar float until I decide where I want it, it undocks everything and puts them on top of one another on the screen.  I get used to where everything is, but I don't always remember how they were arranged, so redocking them is another mission.  I've managed to get round this by creating a new profile called cui, setting that current, changing the cui, and then afterwards going back and setting my own profile current.  But why should I need to?

- In the CUI I often create macros, and one thing I constantly do is to assume that when I create a new command, that box will immediately allow me to change its name.  It doesn't, so if I forget to press F2 I then have to go and search for the blank command I just created.  This applied to older versions, too, so I'm not blaming 2017.

There are other niggles, but these are what I can think of for the moment.

[RobDraw]

You don't mention what version you are coming from and it sounds like you are frustrated by the fact that you cannot use the customizations that you are used to. Making a big jump in versions can be frustrating especially if you are used to customizations that you don't know how to reinstall. What you don't mention are any of the new features that do help you out or even if you are aware of them. You should familiarize yourself with what you can do and maybe you can find some solutions instead of griping about missing your old stuff.

[RobDraw]

Do you want to find out what you are doing wrong with the trim command?

If you want solutions, please post a drawing or screencast that exhibits the behavior.

Edited by
Discussion_Admin

[pendean]

You need to be using AutoCAD Architecture http://www.autodesk.com/adt for truly convenient walls/doors/windows cleanup and more.

[Anonymous]

Robdraw,

I came from autocad 2012 (resisted upgrading because my add-on package wouldn't work with the newer versions, even though I was licensed for them) and I had it set to classic mode.  I realised that I would need to change to the ribbons, because any help one asks for always assumes that one uses ribbons, and I decided I would have to get used to them, much as I dislike them.  I simply don't have the same logic as someone who feels that adding another keystroke or mouse click is a good idea (trim/extend command, for example).

I may be griping a lot, but like most people, I am extremely busy, and deadlines don't like waiting for me to acclimatise myself to new ways of doing things.  Part of my usefulness is that I was very fast at producing drawings.  All that experience feels like it is for nothing, now - takes me far longer to do things that used to just take me just a couple of seconds.

I have to apologise, though, because when I zoomed in really, really close to the lines I was trying to trim, I discovered a miniscule gap.  Which is not easily explained, since I'd added the walls to the doors, and inserted both together as a block, then used the endpoint of one of the wall lines to move it where I needed it.  Why, when I exploded the block and then extended the lines when it wouldn't trim, it still left that tiny gap, I don't know.  But at least I know it was my fault, and not that it refused to trim.

[RobDraw]

CADD is changing very quickly these days. Knowing about and learning how to use new features and new software should be a part of your job as well as production, unless you plan on staying exactly where you are at for the foreseeable future. If you don't keep up, you will find yourself in a similar situation where the only option is to use new software without your outdated customizations and you will once again be stuck in the mud and/or banging your head against a wall.

Just my two cents.

[Anonymous]

Robdraw,

I quite agree with you, which is why I'm learning Revit.  Since I don't have that long before I reach retirement age, these things aren't the most important in my life, however.  I like new features - what I don't like is old features dressed up so that I have to relearn to use them.  Don't fix what ain't broke.   CUI, stretch, mtext, wipeouts, etc. have been around for as long as I can remember.  Hatch, text and dimensions have improved vastly from Autocad 9 and 10, Tilemode was added, wipeouts, mtext, etc.  When they were new features they were fantastic and very welcome.  But when none of them improves much more over the years, then I don't see anything to smile about simply because accessing to them has changed, and annoyances haven't been ironed out - if you have known and worked with autocad for 30 years (suddenly realised it's getting of for 40 years,ouch), it doesn't impress you when they change things, from my point of view, for no good reason.

[john.vellek]

Hi @Anonymous,

I understand your frustration. I started with AutoCAD 1.1 and I have seen many changes over the years. In my personal experience, I have found it is easier to adopt the changes as they happen from release to release rather than to make drastic jumps by skipping versions or holding onto "old" ways of doing things.

1) The Express Tools LMAN was slick. I miss it too. Have you tried using the notifications of unreconciled layers? This works pretty well and is controlled by LAYERNOTIFY and LAYEREVALCTL.

2) Selection Effect color is set through  the Options dialog (Selection tab)

3) This has always been a pain point for me too. I have just adapted to it.

4) I have gotten used to the Mtext on the ribbon and have found it very useful. Again, rather than fight I adapt 🙂

5) I recommend creating a partial menu and not modifying the out-of-the-box menu. This makes things MUCH easier.

6) I agree - just a learning step.

[RobDraw]

I was a late bloomer to CADD and I've been doing it for 18+ years. I used a very customized version of 2002 for my day to day work from 2002 until the company I worked for made the jump to 2011. Goodbye customizations and, for most of the people, hello totally foreign interface with everything in a different place. Large company, about 40 regular AutoCAD users at the time. The entire time I was on 2002, I was aware of new features often before they came out and was able to play with the newer versions from time to time with trials and a bit in my day to day as I took care of cleaning up incoming files. Believe me when I tell you, when we made that jump I heard all those gripes you mentioned and many more. Even when they were coming from people I knew and liked, they didn't mean a thing to me because I had to help them and the first step is putting all that stuff aside. Guess what? Every one of those gripers came around and eventually stopped complaining. They even found stuff they really liked.

About the same time Revit came into the picture for us. Only this time, I wasn't prepared. A few training classes and here come the projects. Our network wasn't even ready for it. Not only did I have to do a lot of production, I had to help others when they were having trouble being productive. That was back in 2010. I just recently got a new job because of that experience and haven't done any AutoCAD for almost two months now and actually don't see any in the foreseeable future. The larger companies in my area have or are in the process of dropping AutoCAD.

So, if you aren't feeling any sympathy from me, there is a reason for it. Been there, done that, got through it, trying to not look back. In this day and age, even if you are old, you need to be adaptable.

[Anonymous]

lesee ... Ver. 1.4 in January of 1984 through Jan, of 2017 ... ummm ... carry the 9 ... ummm ... 33 years.  Dang I've been slogging this beast for 33 years and with the exception of R13 I've been rather pleased with each release I've loaded (didn't load 'em all, jumped several like 2000i/2001 & 2004-2009).  Still on 2015, will be until 2018 probably, don't want to switch in the middle of projects.  AS new projects start we upgrade that project and those moving to that project get updated, I'll be on this one till September or so.

BTW, V9 (R9) was released in Sept. of 1987, not yet 30 years ago.

Yeah, there have been a couple of issues, but nothing I couldn't work around rather easily.  Like the first release STRETCH showed up (V2.5??), took five minutes to write a quick ST function to add the "C" for crossing and have been using it ever since. 

(defun c:ST () (command ".stretch" "c"))
(defun c:STC () (command ".stretch" "cp"))

Be careful with those, they're 31 years old.

LMAN was ok until we discovered them propagating via XREF's making them less than useful.  I prefer the filter tool in the layer palette, easier to build a layer set with wildcards, especially with XREF's, and you can build filters in your template and they're always there.

As for TRIM, on my machine it takes the same number of steps it always had, not sure what you mean by an extra click??  I can now press enter instead of selecting a cutting edge (the everything is a cutting edge) and I can use the shift button to toggle between TRIM and EXTEND.  I'm not sure what the beef is there.

When MTEXT showed up I jumped on it; no more needing to jiggle text with lisp routines to get it all to pretend it was a paragraph when you added or deleted a phrase to a note.  I didn't like the MTEXT EDITOR when it first came out, looked odd, so I set MTEXTED to ":lisped#C:/WINDOWS/notepad.exe", it still works.  Since 2010 I use the "INTERNAL" editor , but I built a toggle to go back to notepad sometimes when importing notes from WORD.  Why would the target dialog box for editing MTEXT force you to pick the wrong thing to edit??

As for toolbars moving when changing the CUI, you must have started with an old MNU (MNS) that had specific toolbars opened and located.  Locking the user interface should stop that (LOCKUI = 15).

It appears to me your "niggles" are self-induced, rather fight than switch, I've worked with a lot of folks like that over the years.  If you spent as much time and effort using the new tools as you do trying to make it run like it did 30 years ago you'd probably enjoy the new versions much more.

But hey, that's just me.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the response, John.

Rculp - since I lost my entire CPU to a lightning strike (including my external backup harddrive, which was unfortunately (and unusually) connnected at the time - the strike came completely out of the blue, I had no time to unplug as I usually do because we have frequent and violent thunderstorms here) the version of autocad 2017 I have is a vanilla version - no old menus, etc.

My mtext problems are mainly to do with the height.  Have just discovered that I need to physically select the text in the box and then change the height - I can't change it in the dropdown box without selecting it.  Still have to find out how to set it when starting from scratch, since it only offers me one size in the dropdown box.  All my styles are set to 0 height.

I don't need to create a lisp routine for the stretch command, thanks, a macro works fine.  But I am of the opinion that computer programmes should be slaves, not masters, and they should work the way we want them to, not make us have to change to suit them.  Stretch using a bottom left to top right window is never going to work for anyone, so why make it the default?

Trim/Extend are both contained in one dropdown.  So if it's set on Extend and you want to trim, it's another click.  Using the shift command is also another keystroke.  My aim is to reduce the number of clicks or strokes, not add to them.  Even if it's only a minor irritation it's more stuff to put in toolbars.

I'm going to have another go at the layer manager, using the settings John has given me.

Another niggle - why, when you go to block edit, is the default ribbon Edit Block, which contains few commands for actually editing the block?  I always have to bring up the home menu.  Obviously I don't use enough constraints and things, like everyone else presumably does.

And you are correct - I'd rather fight than switch, unless switching is advantageous.  I'll give it a go, but whatever the switch is, it needs to prove to be better than what went before.  I'm quite prepared to believe that problems I have are because I'm not doing things correctly, but when I see that I am using it properly and it's still annoying, well, that's when I fight.  At the moment I'm left feeling that changes are made because if you're going to insist that everyone upgrades every year, well, you have to change SOMETHING.  So far the only change I would really have fought to have was the 10 to 11 upgrade when tilemode was introduced.  I seem to recall that that upgrade was also when text, dimensions and hatch improvements were made.  3D was vastly improved, but it's now being replaced by Revit.