Managing Xref Layer Property Overrides with a Nested Xref Tree

[Crass]

I am trying to establish a best practice for controlling layer properties for consultant bases (xrefs), something I've done many ways over the years so I'm trying to reflect on that and recommend a preferred method.

Option 1: Currently (Co Standard) we manipulate the layers directly in the consultant/external file once it is received (change color, linetypes, etc.).

• Pro: The benefit is that these changes we make "ripple" through the rest of the set including the our working files and sheet files.
• Cons: Brings up concerns about authorship / editing another entity's data. Also it is a bit of a process and makes integrating updated xrefs a bit of a chore. Some people will even copy and paste the data from the new file into the old to maintain the path structure and overrides which creates opportunities for errors.

Option 2: Another option is to not edit the xref at all when received, but simply re-path to the new version and control the display independently in our working files and sheet files.

• Pro: zero to minimal changes to an external consultant's data. Fast to integrate the new data.
• Cons: Need to adjust the layer property overrides independently in our sheet files (which are broken up by series) and working files. This part can be time consuming and lead to graphic inconsistencies across the set if not done correctly.

Option 3: To be honest I'm not sure this is even an option but I'm hoping to find a compromise (best of both worlds) solution though so far I'm striking out. We have an aggregator file (called xBase) which collects all the consultant xrefs as attachments and then this file is xref'ed as an overlay into our sheet files and working files. It would be nice if we could manipulate the xref layer properties in this xBase file and the overrides could update in our sheets and working files. I was hoping that through VISRETAINMODE or a similar command this could be implemented but it doesn't look like the aggregator host file (xBase) will affect the layer properties of the xrefs in a way that carries on to the sheets and working files as I hoped. I watched this 8 year old video (Power Triad 2017 ) hoping to get some answers and I think the question asked at about 46 mins gets to my question but the presenters don't seem to offer an answer. Maybe Layer State Manager is another tool we could use, but I'd need to do more research on how to implement that.

I understand this may be a company preference issue but would be curious if Autodesk or others have any guidance / AEC industry standards.

Thanks!

[pendean]

Your option 1 is a big mistake IMHO: stop doing that ASAP. Consult with your firm's legal counsel for guidance on the topic.

Option 2: it appears you all never take advantage of the top file's VISRETAIN command? Set the layers as you want in the external file, save and close it, then with VISRETAIN on you XREF in that saved external file. This is what we do 100% of the time.

[paullimapa]

When I worked in the various architectural firms and received dwgs from civil engineers we typically encountered the following major differences in working formats:

drawn in 1 unit = 1 feet vs 1 unit = 1 inch

a different coordinate system with a different base point 

a true north orientation vs unique architectural north

So what we would typically do is make a copy of the dwg received to a designated location, run a script to manipulate the copied dwg file which is then what’s referenced into our various arch dwgs

[Crass]

Thanks for the response @pendean. 

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@pendean wrote:

Your option 1 is a big mistake IMHO: stop doing that ASAP. Consult with your firm's legal counsel for guidance on the topic.

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I agree. This is a practice we are trying to stop and hence the reason for this post.

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Option 2: it appears you all never take advantage of the top file's VISRETAIN command? Set the layers as you want in the external file, save and close it, then with VISRETAIN on you XREF in that saved external file. This is what we do 100% of the time.

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Let me drill down into this a little further so that I am certain that I understand. When you say "set the layers as you want in the external file," you mean the consultant xref, correct? So 1) you are technically modifying that file though not actual geometry and 2) you need to do this process over each time you receive an updated version? And by top file you mean our sheet file (in this case), correct? So, you are saying that in our sheet file VISRETAIN should be set to zero? I thought best practice was to leave this as <1> and adjust VISRETAINMODE but I understand that if you want all properties to come through VISRETAIN should be enough. I guess one danger I see is that with VISRETAIN on in the sheet file changes to all files' layer properties, including our own working files, will propagate through. So you just use XREF and VPORT overrides to control differences in style specific to a series, correct?

Is there any merit to Option 3 or a way to have the aggregator file play the role of setting the properties? It sounds like no. 

Thanks for the clarification.

[Crass]

Thanks @paullimapa. How do you then control the display of those Civil layers in your drawings (color, ltype, on/off, etc.)? Directly in the copied dwg from the consultant? Do you have to redo this process each time they issue a new dwg?

[paullimapa]

All changes including layer manipulations are done on the copied file (again automated with a script) which always has the same name and is always placed in the same location so nothing needs to be done with repathing xrefs

[Crass]

Hi @paullimapa - Got it. So you just overwrite that file with a new one when you get it, correct? Does this make version control when coordinating with your consultant / collaborator more challenging as you've changed their filename and date modified?

[paullimapa]

When we receive files from consultants we'll create a folder under that consultant directory named based on the date the files were received.

So we keep records of all drawings received.

So the file we reference into our drawings is always the modified version and consistently named the same. 

So a simple folder structure would be like this:

ARCHITECTURAL DRAWING FOLDER

CIVIL DRAWING FOLDER

 +--LIST OF SUBFOLDERS named by date representing when drawings are received

 +--CURRENT DRAWING FILE.dwg (this is the modified version for referencing)

[Crass]

Thanks @paullimapa - We do something similar. I was just wondering if we could take it a step further by hardly modifying consultant files at all.

[Crass]

Hi @pendean - If you have a chance can you respond to my follow-up questions above? Your insight would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[paullimapa]

IMHO to effectively and efficiently use consultants dwgs there’s no way to accomplish this without first “modifying consultant files” which are the steps I outlined in my previous posts.