External reference update balloon notification reports wrong user

External reference update balloon notification reports wrong user

mkincaid
Explorer Explorer
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Message 1 of 52

External reference update balloon notification reports wrong user

mkincaid
Explorer
Explorer

In Release 2021 I have noticed that when an Xref gets modified, the balloon notification that pops up to tell you that it has been modified by, is reporting the wrong user name? Has anyone else noticed this random anomaly?

xref baloon notification.png

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51 Replies
Replies (51)
Message 21 of 52

ABELLAA
Explorer
Explorer

Just to add some "historical" information (IF ever autodesk decide to fix this problem), first time I encountered this issue was with civil 3D v2008. Yep, more than a decade ago and thought it was a glitch in the company's server. It went away after it was reported to the IT department. Now, it's happening again in civil 3D v2023 (sigh of frustration).

 

Please let me know if this ever get resolved. Turning off the notification is not the answer because we need control who can access our base design files.

 

 

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Message 22 of 52

jmontie
Participant
Participant

I have just ran across this issue also. In my case I was in a drawing and selected an xref, opened it, modified it, saved it, and closed it. This brought me back to the one I had opened the xref from. It notified me the xref was modified by somebody that had the day off. And shortly after AutoCAD crashed.

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Message 23 of 52

Kevin.Spear
Advisor
Advisor
what version (2022/23/34) are you using and do you have all updates applied?
Thanks
Kevin

Kevin Spear, PE
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Message 24 of 52

jmontie
Participant
Participant

AutoCAD 2022.1.3 as far as I know AutoCAD 2022 is up to date.

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Message 25 of 52

Kevin.Spear
Advisor
Advisor
It's been awhile since i was in contact with Autodesk about this issue. If I recall correctly, this issue was addressed in an update for 2023 but not for 2022. I have to verify if 2024 contains the issue.
Thanks
Kevin

Kevin Spear, PE
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Message 26 of 52

pendean
Community Legend
Community Legend

@jmontie wrote:

AutoCAD 2022.1.3 as far as I know AutoCAD 2022 is up to date.


Is this a sudden new problem across all files and projects?

Or is this a one-off issue here and nowhere else?

Does a PC restart stop it from re-occurring?

 

Are you on VPN or RDP? or working with cloud files?

or are you hardwired to your file storage hardware?

 

 

 

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Message 27 of 52

Kevin.Spear
Advisor
Advisor
This issue occurs in all situations (local, network, or cloud shared drive), except maybe desktop connector (which I haven't tested) in 2022. In the local scenario, it's a file emailed to me that I then edit.
Thanks
Kevin

Kevin Spear, PE
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Message 28 of 52

Kevin.Spear
Advisor
Advisor
After some quick testing... The issue still remains in 2023.1.3 and 2024.0.1.
Thanks
Kevin

Kevin Spear, PE
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Message 29 of 52

Kevin.Spear
Advisor
Advisor
Memory jogged a little. We had another issue we were trying to resolve around the same time as this issue. That issue is the QAT would reset to defaults under certain conditions. THIS issue was repaired in 2023, not the xref owner issue. Sorry to confuse...
Thanks
Kevin

Kevin Spear, PE
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Message 30 of 52

pendean
Community Legend
Community Legend

@Kevin.Spear wrote:
This issue occurs in all situations (local, network, or cloud shared drive), except maybe desktop connector (which I haven't tested) in 2022. In the local scenario, it's a file emailed to me that I then edit.

 

Huh. I know everyone in this thread suffers from the problem, but we have yet to see it over the years in our offices and we've all here been through 2022-23-24 with mix of variants too. It is odd indeed. We all use XREFs, we all edit XREFs, we all reload XREFs and we all get emailed DWG files from outside sources.

 

So I do remember back in the day "... WHOHAS only works if everybody has the ARX application loaded. If someone opens a drawing and they don't have WHOHAS loaded, it won't show them as having the drawing open..." and I wonder if is relevant or not. Are your DWL files somehow moving or being erased through some over-anxious IT needs?

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Message 31 of 52

Kevin.Spear
Advisor
Advisor
Using OOTB Autocad on unmanaged laptops. Tried this with friends who are on other domains/systems and can duplicate the issue.
Thanks
Kevin

Kevin Spear, PE
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Message 32 of 52

pendean
Community Legend
Community Legend
Dang! that's messed up for sure. Best wishes with finding a solution soon.
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Message 33 of 52

PaulTOB
Enthusiast
Enthusiast
"except maybe desktop connector"
Your intuition is 100% correct. Since ACC actually keeps track of file access by user, (Windows' file systems does not), it's a night-and-day experience ... not to mention that every save has someone's named and a timestamp attached!
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Message 34 of 52

jmontie
Participant
Participant

This is a one off issue. We are on a local network and my machine is hardwired into the network. We have had random crashes, I had originally thought there could be something on the network clashing. Then I found this topic in the forum.

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Message 35 of 52

pendean
Community Legend
Community Legend

@jmontie wrote:

This is a one off issue...


Thanks for sharing: hopefully it has cleared up since then. There is rarely a fix for a one-off issue, gremlins and glitches happen to all of us at very odd times.

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Message 36 of 52

saughtry
Participant
Participant

I first reported this exact issue to Autodesk several years ago (either in 2020 or 2021 I’d have to check the exact date). No one followed up. More than a year later I reported it for a second time (this was in June 2022). That time Autodesk called me and said this was very odd because “no one had ever reported this before and if this was true they’d have heard about it by now” and I said I had reported it over a year ago.. which then they did admit they could still see the ticket for.

Then I was able to replicate this issue during a video call with Autodesk support and I worked with them to send them a screen recording of it happening. They then issued my support case an ID number giving this issue a “defect” status and told me it would be fixed in an update or the next release. After upgrading to Autocad 2024 we still have the issue.

I contacted support again this week to ask the status (more than 12 months after they IDed this issue) and they were unable to provide an update. Autodesk said they would check into it and follow up again later this week but did say my case was still a “known defect”. 

 

The username balloon notification error is annoying but not an actual workflow problem.. What I am more concerned about is another issue we are having with xrefs (also since around the 2021 release) that we think could be in some way related. And it’s only happening sporadically but to multiple users and computers. We’ve been unable to replicate it even immediately after it’s happened.
I’m curious if anyone else has had this issue as well.

Here’s the other issue:

User A is actively working in a dwg file that is an xref. User B is working in a file linked to that xref. User B tries to open the xref (the file that user A already has open) via right click “open xref”. Autocad gives user B the file. No read only pop up notification appears as it normally does. Then user A will discover they now have a lock at the top of their tab and cannot save their file. User B is able to save theirs but none of what User A has worked on is there.

 

Autodesk told me “your file locking is controlled by windows not us”.. but that has been true since the early 2000s. And we aren’t experiencing this issue with any other software. Even with Autocad 99% of the time the files are locking normally and the read only notification will appear. But randomly this is happening and I believe it does involve xrefs.. and possibly could be related to this balloon notification username issue. It never happened to us on older versions but sometime after the 2021 release this also started happening.

I found one other person also describing the exact issue on Reddit, their post said they’re using Autocad 2021. . Autodesk also told them it can’t be their issue because of the file locking not being controlled by them.. 

 

(Apologies in advance if I’m breaking some forum rules or something talking about multiple issues within the same thread.)

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Message 37 of 52

ABELLAA
Explorer
Explorer

You are absolutely right! YOU ARE NOT ALONE!

Very frustrating to work when these anomalies happen. We are in the middle of designing and suddenly the file turns to "read only" mode where NO ONE is working on the file but the user. 

 

I hope you will give us an update if Autodesk finds a solution to this problem. Some already suggested to try another design program similar to Civil 3D. The company thought having subscription-based use of the program eliminates having these issues.

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Message 38 of 52

dgauerDED75
Participant
Participant

I have seen the same thing,  files going read-only.   This doesn't happen often and we cannot seem to replicate it,   but it does happen occasionally.  This should be impossible on a windows file server but it does happen.  I am not sure if it is related to the balloon notification issue which happens much more frequently.    We have just learned to live with it.

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Message 39 of 52

PaulTOB
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

@saughtry @ABELLAA @dgauerDED75 

We were (and still are when folks don't play right) having the read-only issue you described. We (with 85% confidence) know what causes it. Autodesk will not (probably cannot) address it.

  1. Our data is stored using the DFS (distributed file system) Windows storage system.
    1. Important note: DFS storage is explicitly unsupported by Autodesk.
    2. You may not be using DFS, but you could be using storage systems that aren't actual Windows network shares, but simulated shares on something like a small business NAS system or a large scale Linux server farm. This is also not supported by Autodesk.
  2. DFS caching servers in offices at various geographic locations reach out to a central server from time-to-time to get file updates. The central server then receives updates from the caching servers on a similar schedule.
  3. When Bob in Timbuktu opens a file, he creates a lock and .dwl file set for a given DWG on the local server.
  4. Bob's lock and new .dwl files won't be reported to the central server until the scheduled sync time.
  5. When Alice in Chicago opens the same file direct from the central server before the sync, Bob's lock isn't reported yet and his dwls don't exist from her point of view.
  6. Alice starts working thinking she's all good.
  7. Cue the sync. At random (could be determinate, but don't have enough data), the storage algorithm decides that either Alice or Bob has the lock. Let's pick Alice.
  8. Now Bob sees his drawing go Read Only.
  9. Since this is the fifth time this week, Bob chucks his chair through a fourth story window, triggering a massive insurance claim against the firm.

What's worse is that some DREF and XREF sync/reload operations seem to put a temporary, short-lived lock on DWGs - we're not 100% sure there. On top of that many of the DWG files are 20MB - 80 MB, so the syncs are unnaturally slow. Now imagine ten techs in five different offices trying to annotate sheets. 

 

A large-scale solution that works is expensive. Virtual Desktop Infrastructure (VDI) connected directly to the central server. Fortunately, we had VDI already in the works for different use cases. Now it's mainly used by Civil designers. It's still a clunky solution because of limited storage for user accounts on the VDI fabric (the storage hardware is very, very fast, but very, very expensive at that tech level).

 

For small to medium firms a shelving unit next to the server full of desktop or laptop workstations + VPN + Windows built-in RDP (Remote Desktop) will also do the trick, but after many users need it, the maintenance costs shoot up. Chrome Remote Desktop can also work in a pinch.

 

Because ACC promises a better experience on paper, we sat down with an ACC expert from one of the bigger Autodesk consulting firms to get a demo. Everything broke during the demo. Files were showing up in ACC, but not being synced other workstations, saved files on local workstations wouldn't sync to the clould, part catalog storage isn't supported, (b/c ACC explicitly disallows storage of .html files), Desktop Connector crashed, etc. A-desk is making improvements, and I hope that soon we can switch over to a full ACC workflow, just not now.

Message 40 of 52

Kevin.Spear
Advisor
Advisor
I would concur that the issue is related to the symbolic drive aspect. I have helped some firms that do something similar where the network drive is actually a cloud drive using a platform by Egnyte. We have discussed options. Most either jump all the way into the egnyte ecosystem or all the way out for CAD data.
Thanks
Kevin

Kevin Spear, PE