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Content of Blocks - old an new in the same block

Anonymous

Content of Blocks - old an new in the same block

Anonymous
No aplicable

Hello all,

 

I've got a very weird problem with AutoCAD blocks. I'm working on a drawing and edit a block, e.g. I'm adding lines, stretch the content of the block or just move some parts of the block. Everything looks perfect when I save the block. Then I'm working on other blocks on the drawing and after a while, I'm returning to the block and look at it - and I see that the content of the block shows the block in the state before I changed it AND after my changes. When I open the block via refedit or block editor, lines and objects are duplicated - it really looks like time travelling. I got the block before I changed it and after I changed it in the same block. I have to wipe out the doubled lines with the command overkill and I have to check the objects and lines I changed and delete the old state.

This can happen several times a day. I can't figure out when it happens or what causes the "duplicating time travel". I didn't even know AutoCAD would store old block definitions somewhere and not overwrite them when the new one is saved.

I have no idea what could possibly cause this effect. I can't repeat it, it just happens. Sometimes I'm closing the drawing thinking everything is fine on Friday and when I open it on Monday I get duplicates in the blocks. 

This doesn't happen in all drawings, but when it starts it will happen again. 

 

Has anybody ever had the same issue or the slightest idea what could cause this behavior?

 

Thanks in advance for your help,

 

Regards

 

Mareike

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Respuestas (15)

kadmonkee
Advisor
Advisor

does your block work in a new or different file?

when you are in the Block editor be sure to turn on all layers

open a new file insert the troubled block and test it in the new file.

if you have multiple instances of a block in one file it may not update all of those instances.

is this a dynamic block?

is the block annotative?

can you post the block so we can test it?






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If a solution is provided by any posters please mark them as Solved to benefit everyone else.
thank you

Anonymous
No aplicable

Good morning,

 

thank you for your answer.

 

Regarding your Questions:

 

does your block work in a new or different file?

 

Copying the block in a new file doesn't help. When the block is copied in a new file, the content is still doubled. It also doesn't prevent that behaviour.

 

when you are in the Block editor be sure to turn on all layers

 

All Layers are always turned on, drawings show design ideas at tender stage, therefore are not very complex. No need to work with layers to isolate objects.

 

open a new file insert the troubled block and test it in the new file.

 

Already copied all information in a new, clean file. Also, always starting with new drawings in a new, clean file. Both doesn't prevent what happens.

 

if you have multiple instances of a block in one file it may not update all of those instances.

 

Problem is not multiple block instances. Problem is doubled block content in the block. For Example:

I have one block, called Horizontal Section. If I open that block, it contains two or three other blocks called Profile 1, Profile 2 and Glass. It also has various lines, hatches ect. inside.

When I close the block after editing (e.g. adding a line, stretching), everything looks normal. But the next time I open it, every single object in the block is doubled. When I klick on Profile 1, there are two Profile 1 blocks. Same with Profile 2, the Glass and the hatches and lines. Every single object is doubled. Then I realise that whatever I edited when I opened the block the last time is still there - the new and the old version. Let's say I stretched a rectangle in the block the last time I edited it. Then I would get that rectangle doubled - stretched and not stretched, and all other objects inside the block that didn't change are also doubled. It's like an old version of the block is copied inside the block.

I know this sounds very odd, I don't have the slightest idea how this can happen.

 

is this a dynamic block?

 

No. Though sometimes dynamic blocks are also doubled when they are part of a doubled block, this problem also occurred where no dynamic blocks were used.

 

is the block annotative?

 

No.

 

can you post the block so we can test it?

 

I'd like to, but since I can't reproduce what happens and our drawings are confidential I'm not able to post an example.

 

I was hopeing that somebody had the same problem and would have an idea how to fix it. 

 

Thanks again for your help,

 

Regards

 

Mareike

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Alfred.NESWADBA
Consultant
Consultant

Hi,

 

great questions from @kadmonkee!

 

As the blocks are not dynamic and are not annotative I see only three more chances:

  • You do have a block-in-block structure, that can sometimes be irritating
  • You do have an application/tool/plugin running on top of AutoCAD which resets or modifies block-definitions
  • You are not up-to-date with your AutoCAD (look to _ABOUT and show us a screenshot from that dialog, without serial number if there is one)

HTH, - alfred -

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alfred NESWADBA
ISH-Solutions GmbH / Ingenieur Studio HOLLAUS
www.ish-solutions.at ... blog.ish-solutions.at ... LinkedIn ... CDay 2025
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(not an Autodesk consultant)
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Anonymous
No aplicable

Hi Alfred,

 

thanks for your answer.

 

  • You do have a block-in-block structure, that can sometimes be irritating

Agree. We are using blocks in blocks which can cause trouble. My best guess is that this happens when saving the block, that's why I never notice when it happens. I'm not the only one having this problem, there are a few more users affected. We are all using exactly the same set up, Hardware and Software. It started last year when we were still using AutoCAD 2012, I hoped that the problem would be solved with updating to AutoCAD 2016. Unfortunately, the problem persists.

 

  • You do have an application/tool/plugin running on top of AutoCAD which resets or modifies block-definitions

That was my first thought, we have custom made tools running. But these are running on I guess 200 AutoCAD installations not causing any of this trouble. We only know of 3 Users having this problem.

 

  • You are not up-to-date with your AutoCAD (look to _ABOUT and show us a screenshot from that dialog, without serial number if there is one)

I Hope you are looking for the screenshot attached, if not let me know. We are currently using AutoCAD 2016 SP1.

 

Thanks very much for your help,

 

Regards

 

Mareike

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pendean
Community Legend
Community Legend
Post a DWG with these blocks and problems in place, let's all have a look.
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Anonymous
No aplicable

Hello pendean,

 

I'd really like to post an example, but unfortunately I'm working at a facade company which is doing all facade systems from scratch. Even if I'm only posting the affected block it would still show e.g. a horizontal section of a confidential facade system.

I can't reproduce the problem, therefore I can't poste a drawing with simple objects showing the problem.

 

I'm very sorry.

 

Regards

 

Mareike

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Alfred.NESWADBA
Consultant
Consultant

Hi,

 

>> I Hope you are looking for the screenshot attached

That screenshot does not show the dialog of command _ABOUT directly, it's showing the sub-dialog when you press "product information" in the _ABOUT dialog.

We just need the _ABOUT dialog screenshot like that: :cara_guiñando_un_ojo:

 

20170418_163936.png

 

- alfred -

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alfred NESWADBA
ISH-Solutions GmbH / Ingenieur Studio HOLLAUS
www.ish-solutions.at ... blog.ish-solutions.at ... LinkedIn ... CDay 2025
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(not an Autodesk consultant)
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Anonymous
No aplicable

Hi Alfred,

 

thanks for the clarification. 

 

Product Version M. 107.0.0 AutoCAD 2016 SP1

 

AutoCAD_about.PNG

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hope that helps!

 

Mareike

 

 

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Anonymous
No aplicable

Hello all,

 

I found a block where this problem occurred which I can attach as dwg.

 

Fixing normal.dwg is the fixing block as it was when it was not doubled. That block has been restored from our daily backup.

Fixing doubled.dwg shows the same block one day later, you can see that there are all objects doubled and clearly an older version and a newer version of the block. They are quite different, so deleting the duplicated objects takes a lot of time.

 

Thanks in advance for having a look at this,

 

Regards

 

Mareike

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Alfred.NESWADBA
Consultant
Consultant

Hi,

 

to describe it more correct: the block content is not doubled, it's quadrupled.

And as the distance is exactly 3 units, I guess it's from a manual input, I can't see that as something AutoCAD does by itself.

 

I have no idea how that would be happening just by itself ... (I don't think this is an AutoCAD bug as there would exist more threads describing similar symptoms).

 

Maybe you can look to that 3 guys? Watch them, especially how they exit the block-editor.

Or, alternativly, try to use "edit block in place" instead the block-editor, just for a test period.

 

- alfred -

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alfred NESWADBA
ISH-Solutions GmbH / Ingenieur Studio HOLLAUS
www.ish-solutions.at ... blog.ish-solutions.at ... LinkedIn ... CDay 2025
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(not an Autodesk consultant)
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Anonymous
No aplicable

Hello Alfred,

 

I understand what you mean. I still can't believe it, but three people swear that they do nothing and the blocks look like this.

 

I already suggested that one of them is using the block editor, the other one is using refedit for a few days and see what happens. Both said it didn't change anything. I would also say they are doing something wrong, but two of them are very good at using AutoCAD and one of them was even an AutoCAD teacher for some years.

Watching them is not an option cause sometimes that problem doesn't occur for days. You never realize that it happend, you just recognize the doubled objects when you have a look at the block.

 

I guess it must have to do with our tools somehow. I really have no idea how this is even possible.

 

But many thanks for your input,

 

Regards

 

Mareike

 

 

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cadffm
Consultant
Consultant

@Anonymous and Mareike

Speak German together, its easier for you : )

 

I know other People with the same Problem, but they dont figgured out when und why this happend.

No one can tell the function or Third-Part what going wrong.

Sebastian

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Anonymous
No aplicable

Probably not the answer you're looking for but at least temporarily to work around the problem to get things straightened out do your block editing in your in individual files. Including the nested block first, then the composite block inserting the corrected nested blocks. Don't forget to purge as you go.

 

I'm relatively new to the block editing tools and "grew up" without them. I think they're very handy tools but can potentially cause some problems. When that happens it may be best to revert to previous methodology to resolve some issues. 

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Anonymous
No aplicable

Hello all,

 

many thanks to you for your help.

 

@Anonymous: I'm so happy you said that the objects in the block are not doubled but quadrupled. Cause when I isolated the block in the drawing, it was only doubled! I still had the doubled version and remembered what I did to cause the doubling... I deleted everything in the drawing except the block and saved it. After that, I reopened the drawing and thought it would be better to purge the unused blocks. We have a custom tool which purges & audits the drawing which I used. 

 

I took the doubled drawing and did that again. I used purge and audit via command line. If I use purge only or audit only, nothing happens. Block is still doubled. But if I use both, the block is quadrupled. Same happens if I use recover to repair the drawing.

 

Recover protocol looks like this:

 

Drawing recovery.

 

Drawing recovery log.

 

Validating objects in the handle table.

 

Valid objects 18631  Invalid objects 0

 

Validating objects completed.

 

   Salvaged database from drawing.

 

Auditing Header

 

Auditing Tables

 

Auditing Entities Pass 1

 

Pass 1 17400   objects auditedAcDbSortentsTable(1BF74)

       AcDbSortEntsTable Block Id not valid             fixed.

 

Pass 1 18500   objects auditedAcDbSortentsTable(1D8F2)

       AcDbSortEntsTable Block Id not valid             fixed.

 

AcDbSortentsTable(1D8F2)

          Error for Entry (1D8D1) eInvalidInput         was Removed.

 

AcDbSortentsTable(1D8F2)

          Error for Entry (1D8DA) eInvalidInput         was Removed.

 

AcDbSortentsTable(1D8F2)

          Error for Entry (1D8D4) eInvalidInput         was Removed.

 

AcDbSortentsTable(1D8F2)

          Error for Entry (1D8D7) eInvalidInput         was Removed.

 

AcDbSortentsTable(1D8F2)

          Error for Entry (1D8DD) eInvalidInput         was Removed.

 

AcDbSortentsTable(1D8F2)

          Error for Entry (1D8E0) eInvalidInput         was Removed.

 

AcDbSortentsTable(1D8F2)

          Error for Entry (1D8E9) eInvalidInput         was Removed.

 

AcDbSortentsTable(1D8F2)

          Error for Entry (1D8E3) eInvalidInput         was Removed.

 

AcDbSortentsTable(1D8F2)

          Error for Entry (1D8EC) eInvalidInput         was Removed.

 

AcDbSortentsTable(1D8F2)

          Error for Entry (1D8E6) eInvalidInput         was Removed.

 

AcDbSortentsTable(1D8F2)

          Error for Entry (1D8EF) eInvalidInput         was Removed.

 

AcDbSortentsTable(1D8F2)

          Error for Entry (1D8CD) eInvalidInput         was Removed.

 

AcDbSortentsTable(1D8F2)

         Error for Entry (1D8D0) eInvalidInput         was Removed.

 

AcDbSortentsTable(1D8F2)

          Error for Entry (1D8D9) eInvalidInput         was Removed.

 

AcDbSortentsTable(1D8F2)

          Error for Entry (1D8D3) eInvalidInput         was Removed.

 

AcDbSortentsTable(1D8F2)

          Error for Entry (1D8DC) eInvalidInput         was Removed.

 

AcDbSortentsTable(1D8F2)

          Error for Entry (1D8D6) eInvalidInput         was Removed.

 

AcDbSortentsTable(1D8F2)

          Error for Entry (1D8DF) eInvalidInput         was Removed.

 

AcDbSortentsTable(1D8F2)

          Error for Entry (1D8E8) eInvalidInput         was Removed.

 

AcDbSortentsTable(1D8F2)

          Error for Entry (1D8E2) eInvalidInput         was Removed.

 

AcDbSortentsTable(1D8F2)

          Error for Entry (1D8EB) eInvalidInput         was Removed.

 

AcDbSortentsTable(1D8F2)

          Error for Entry (1D8E5) eInvalidInput         was Removed.

 

AcDbSortentsTable(1D8F2)

          Error for Entry (1D8EE) eInvalidInput         was Removed.

 

AcDbSortentsTable(1D8F2)

          Error for Entry (1D8CC) eInvalidInput         was Removed.

 

AcDbSortentsTable(1D8F2)

          Error for Entry (1D8CF) eInvalidInput         was Removed.

 

AcDbSortentsTable(1D8F2)

          Error for Entry (1D8D8) eInvalidInput         was Removed.

 

AcDbSortentsTable(1D8F2)

          Error for Entry (1D8D2) eInvalidInput         was Removed.

 

AcDbSortentsTable(1D8F2)

          Error for Entry (1D8DB) eInvalidInput         was Removed.

 

AcDbSortentsTable(1D8F2)

          Error for Entry (1D8D5) eInvalidInput         was Removed.

 

AcDbSortentsTable(1D8F2)

          Error for Entry (1D8DE) eInvalidInput         was Removed.

 

AcDbSortentsTable(1D8F2)

          Error for Entry (1D8E1) eInvalidInput         was Removed.

 

AcDbSortentsTable(1D8F2)

          Error for Entry (1D8EA) eInvalidInput         was Removed.

 

AcDbSortentsTable(1D8F2)

          Error for Entry (1D8E4) eInvalidInput         was Removed.

 

AcDbSortentsTable(1D8F2)

          Error for Entry (1D8ED) eInvalidInput         was Removed.

 

AcDbSortentsTable(1D8F2)

          Error for Entry (1D8E7) eInvalidInput         was Removed.

 

AcDbSortentsTable(1D8F2)

          Error for Entry (1D8F0) eInvalidInput         was Removed.

 

AcDbSortentsTable(1D8F2)

          Error for Entry (1D8CE) eInvalidInput         was Removed.

 

Auditing Entities Pass 2

 

Pass 2 100     objects auditedAcDbDimStyleTableRecord: "_Pisa-Eng_M"

 

                                  Not in Table          Added

 

Pass 2 18500   objects audited

 

Auditing Blocks

 

253     Blocks audited

 

Auditing AcDsRecords

 

Total errors found 40 fixed 40

 

Erased 0 objects

 

Opening an AutoCAD 2013 format file.

 

Regenerating model.

 

 

I still have no idea how some of the blocks get corrupted like this. I didn't use any command I can think of in these few steps I made that could cause this. I even copied the original drawing, deleted everything except the block - I never ended up with a broken block again.

 

But now, I have at least one example for that error. If you like to see it for yourself, I attached the drawing Bef doubled no audit.dwg. If you open it and have a look at the block in the block editor, all objects are doubled. I have already purged the drawing, so it will be enough to enter _audit in the command line and after that, the objects in the block should be quadrupled. 

 

Many thanks for your help,

 

Mareike

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Anonymous
No aplicable

Hello all,

 

just realized with the help of cadffm how to prevent the doubling... by just using _purge and closing & saving the drawing. After that, the error does not occur any more. 

 

So if you have tried it with the file I attached in my last post... this won't work cause I accidentally fixed it Guiño

 

Thank you all for your help,

 

Regards

 

Mareike

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