Changing to Paperspace

[MikeKovacik4928]

Hi Autocadders around the globe.

We have a new member in our drawing office who has never in all his years using autocad, used paper space.

what is the best way of transitioning him to paper space. I have done it before with  users of one of the previous drawing offices I was in, but it took quite a while and definitely has to be done with some sort of training tutorials, examples, videos etc.

I don't have a lot of up to date, relevant training material on that one.

Can I ask you seasoned autocadders out there to send me some or point me in the direction of some.

In particular, I would like to hear from cad managers (we don't have such a thing here, only drawing office managers

who mainly do document control but do not look after the cad aspect of things) on how they would do that or have done that in the past.

Are there users out there that still do everything in model space. I would really  be interested to know

and also why they are not using paper space. Model space is workable, but I think there are so many nice features in paper space to improve your methodology as well as the appearance of the drawing

Mike Kovacik

Autocad 2108 2d & 3d, Inventor 2018

Joburg

South Africa

[Anonymous]

Hello Mike,

I would start explaining to him that life will be easier when using paperspace, managing aspects of drawing better and easier, faster as well. He needs to think of the paperspace as an actual sheet of paper in his hand. "Drawing" on that paper is placing viewports with objects from model space in the paperspace. If he never used it before, that's where I would start, explaining "graphically" in very simple terms.

I'm sure others can chime in as well.

[pendean]

Hands-on training, on the job, then more hands-on training and more hands-on training on the job: sending someone a link to a video or tutorial is not going to meet with your own satisfaction so why start that way.

Invest the time in the fellow and it will pay back handsomely.

My 2cents worth.

[ChicagoLooper]

Are you dealing with architectural drawings that use feet and inches in dimensions or engineering drawings that use decimal feet?

Whatever your case, I'd start with simple geometric shapes which are drawn to scale in modelspace. Shapes such as:

• 2"x4" rectangle (or '2x4')
• 3"x3" square (or 3'x3')
• 5" diameter circle (or 5' diameter)

Reveal each shape, or all shapes if you wish, through a viewport on a layout tab then print to hardcopy on 8.5"x11" using different viewport scales. Use mtext or hand write the VP-scale on each hardcopy. Then using an architect's scale (or engineer's scale) measure the shapes and explain how the measurements acquired relate to the VP-scale.

If your understudy is currently printing accurately from modelspace then he or she will already have an understanding of 'scale' albeit from old school modelspace and not from new school paperspace. 

Redraw new shapes with new dimensions. Again, print hardcopies and give homework to test comprehension. Make it an issue to understand and use in day-to-day drawings, otherwise your understudy will revert back to what they're comfortable with, to what they were using before, and in this case, back to square 1, wasting your and your firm's time.

[Bob_Zurunkle]

Wayyyy back in 2000, I only had the hard copy of the User's Guide and its attendant references, which along with my curiosity and a lot of hunting back and forth through the chapters - and a lot of experimentation - finally yielded some pretty good initial results. As I got more and more enlightened I wrote a white paper for my fellow drafters, whom I dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century!

I likened it to your model (in model space) being an object on a stage, and you (in paper space) being in a control room, in charge of multiple cameras. Each could be trained on the same object at different levels of zoom - some closer, some farther away. Each could even have its own effects filters. Do you see where I am going? AutoCAD has commands for zooming and panning, which play right into the camera analogy. Your output is what you, the controller, mix together on one screen (sheet). I think those were some of the first and most important things I learned - the mixing of different scaled views on one sheet, and (later) the setup (and duplication) of the output parameters for that sheet.

So, check these forums for advice, even watch a few vids, but have that person experiment for themselves, and try to help out on a 'pilot project' in order to gain hands-on experience. But a structured learning environment (such as evening classes) can't be beat!

[maratovich]

Good evening Mike.

I answer your question (I'm not trying to teach).

In our country, 80% of users work only in the Model.

It’s convenient and fast for them.

No one advises how to do it.

Because it affects the speed of work.

We pay for speed, proper operation, and not for a beautiful design.

If a person is so convenient and fast - this is good for business.

Ultimately - there is no difference on paper or PDF from whether it is made into a Model or Paper Space.

Everyone sees the end result.

I repeat - this is the answer to the question, I do not teach anyone.

[MikeKovacik4928]

Maratovich

What country are you in?

Very good reason not to use paperspace

I am not in charge, also we have no standard way of doing things, everybody does their own thing,

but I think I am going to print this reply and advise  him not to bother learning paperspace for that very reason.

Paperspace for 3d is a totally different story, of course, but no one in our office  works in 3D,

and I have just recently been banned  from  using 3d ( I was the only one using it), so for 2D I suppose you are

right

I use paperspace in 2d because I am very familiar with it and have  been  using it since AutoCAD 2000

Mike

[ChicagoLooper]

OK, so it's modelspace for drawing and printing too. It sure beats drawing on a board with a T-square.

Does your office use Microsoft Word or do you still use a typewriter? If typewriter, is it an electric model with an automated erase key or manual one where you have use a lever for carriage return? Just curious😊 

[MikeKovacik4928]

We use Microsoft word.

If someone had a typewriter I'm not sure whether he would be allowed to use it!!

but like I said everybody here does his own thing in CAD, there are no set standards,

so if he is faster using model space, why not?

I can't see that anybody is going to force him to use paper space

[GrantsPirate]

I would send them to this website where they have some really good tutorials on AutoCAD.

https://www.mycadsite.com/tutorials/level_2/layout-tabs-plotting-autocad-paper-space-2-8.html

[maratovich]

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@MikeKovacik4928 wrote:

Maratovich

What country are you in?

---

I am in Russia.
Additionally - in our country there is one state standard for paper formats and title blocks.
Everyone, in all firms, has the same title block. This reduces time, and everyone understands it quickly. No beauty, no extra texts, just the right information.

[MikeKovacik4928]

Thanks for the reply

We do structural draughting (formwork,scaffolding, temporary works) in metric units ie mm

He is not my understudy, he is a fellow draughtsman.

I have no authority over him, I will offer my help, if he wants it, otherwise it is his choice to stay on model space

or change to paper space.

Like I have said we have no structured form of cad management or autocad standards, so everybody is free to do

what he wants.

Thanks for the advice on how to structure some form of tutorials based on basic shapes, I might just give that a go

Mike

[MikeKovacik4928]

Thanks

I have done that already.

It is now up to him to  decide

Mike

[MikeKovacik4928]

I agree with you wholeheartedly.

I have told him that if he is interested I can give him that hands on training.

Mike

[MikeKovacik4928]

Thanks for those useful analogies and that useful advice

The structured learning environment ( evening classes) however won't happen.

In the 3 1/2 years I have been with the company it has never happened

Mike

[MikeKovacik4928]

Maratovich

That actually doesn't sound like a half bad idea

What do you guys in the USA think of that.

It does simplify and standardise things and also speed them up

Mike

[MikeKovacik4928]

Thanks

Will give him details of this website and check it out myself too

Mike

[jeff_rivers]

What do you guys in the USA think of that (one nation-wide standard titleblock)?

I work for a middle-sized county, and we have two sets of standards, one for our Road design dept., and another slightly modified set for our Bridge design dept.  

In Civil/road design, every city, State DOT, private developer, and private engineering firm in the US uses their own titleblock.  While we do have a nation-wide CAD Standards organization, they are purely advisory.  I have very little experience with the architectural/BIM side of things, but I believe they follow the standards more closely than the DOT's & civils do.  Whether they use a common titleblock I don't know.  And they follow the standards not because of a top-down directive from some government authority, but voluntarily because of the efficiency gains to their business.  

[Anonymous]

I use Autocad Electrical, and paperspace is not really useful, it just gets in the way. All my drawings are set up and I can export them all to a PDF for printing. If I did use paperspace, all the drawings would be the same aspect and it would be one extra thing to mess with. I would like to turn it off because if I hover over a drawing tab to long, it switches to paperspace, then i have to switch it back to model space. very annoying.

[Valentin_CAD]

@Anonymous ,

Consider turning off your "Display Layout and Model tabs" in your OPTIONS.