Anuncios

The Autodesk Community Forums has a new look. Read more about what's changed on the Community Announcements board.

Bar Scale always equals viewport scale x 12

GroveSci
Participant

Bar Scale always equals viewport scale x 12

GroveSci
Participant
Participant

I am using AutoCAD Civil 3D 2018. 

 

I have a drawing in feet. In the paper space I have a viewport where 1"=100'. When I go to bring in a scale it comes in smaller then it should by a factor of 12. My drawing has a scale of 1:1200 but the scale ratio of the scale bar is 1:14400. In order to make everything display right I have to multiply my divisions by 12. Then once the scale bar is in place I can manually correct the numbers. This would be ok, except that anytime I touch the viewport (to move it, clip it, etc.) the scale bar "fixes" its self causing it to show 1"=1200 feet instead of 1"=100 feet. if I select the scale bar and the viewport autocad recognizes that the scales are not the same with a little blue box that states "Viewport scale is not equal to annotation scale" clicking on the box is supposed to synchronize them but this does nothing. Changing the scale ratio on the scale bar properties causes my drawing to resize. 

 

I have checked the scale bar and confirmed that it is off by a factor of 12. I can draw a line in model space that is 100 feet long. I've even measured it to make sure the line that's been drawn is 100 feet and not 100 inches. The measuring tool tells me it is 100'-0". I then can trace this line in paper space. If I then move it and measure the traced line the measuring tool tells me it is 0'-1" in length. I then create a scale bar with a division of 1200 Feet. Placing the 1" line(traced from the 100 foot drawn line) on the zero mark on the bar causes it to fall on the 1st division marked 1200 feet. 

 

I can work around the problem by creating a false viewport(attaching the drawing scale to a viewport that exists outside of the print area instead of the one it's supposed to be associated with) or by manually altering the numbers so they are correct but it would be preferable that the scale bar worked correctly. I don't know if it makes a difference or not but even though my drawing is in feet. When I select one of the imperial scale bars the units seem to default to meters. Everything I've described happens regardless if i pick an imperial or metric scale bar.

0 Me gusta
Responder
4.007 Vistas
24 Respuestas
Respuestas (24)

pendean
Community Legend
Community Legend
If you use FEET (12-foot=12inches) for drafting, why use a 1-inch=100-foot viewport scale? Of course everything will be off by 12, AutoCAD is too stupid to figure it out for you (it has no concept of inches or feet or mm or meters), you kind of have to do it yourself, like with a 1:100 scale instead.



0 Me gusta

GroveSci
Participant
Participant

I don't understand what you mean. 

 

my drawing is 1:1200

when I try to put in a bar scale it automatically puts it in at 1:14400 and I can't make the two the same. 

 

0 Me gusta

pendean
Community Legend
Community Legend
You wrote: "...I have a drawing in feet. In the paper space I have a viewport where 1"=100'..."
Last part ofthe above statement is for drawings in inches, not feet.

AutoCAD only understands the term UNIT, nothing else. You determine what a unit is, AutoCAD does not understand feet from inches from meters from miles.

Are you really wishing to plot at 1-foot = 1200 feet? "...my drawing is 1:1200..." or are you still thinking in inches (1"=100') while you draw in feet in AutoCAD?

By the way, Civil3D forum is over here since you are talking about features (scale bar) not found in plain AutoCAD where you are posting https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/civil-3d-forum/bd-p/66



0 Me gusta

ed57gmc
Mentor
Mentor

If you run the SCALELISTEDIT command, you will see the actual ratio used to display model space in a viewport. 1" = 100' is not a standard scale that comes with AutoCAD. Apparently, it was added to work with units of inches, not feet. So, I'm assuming its ratio is 1:1200. You need to use a scale with a ratio of 1:100, which there is a standard scale supplied.

Ed


Did you find this post helpful? Feel free to Like this post.
Did your question get successfully answered? Then click on the ACCEPT SOLUTION button.
How to post your code.

EESignature

0 Me gusta

ed57gmc
Mentor
Mentor

oops, I stepped away for a couple of minutes and you guys got in three replies. Emoticono feliz

You may have two problems. Besides the viewport scale, if you're using Map 3D or Civil 3D, you also have a geo coordinate system. State plane coord systems usually come in meters and feet. You could have selected the meter version.

Ed


Did you find this post helpful? Feel free to Like this post.
Did your question get successfully answered? Then click on the ACCEPT SOLUTION button.
How to post your code.

EESignature

0 Me gusta

GroveSci
Participant
Participant

running the SCALELISTEDIT command shows that scale I'm using is "1 paper Inch = 100 drawing feet".  I do not see a 1:100 scale. The scales it shows me are

 

Drawing Scale List.png

 

The top 4 are all ones that I have added. However, even if I use one of the default scales, for example 1:1. The scale bar comes in at 1:12. 

mismatched scales.png

0 Me gusta

GroveSci
Participant
Participant

I didn't realize the scale bar was an autocad 3D thing. The drawing in question is in 2D space and so far as I'm aware I'm not using any of the 3D features.  I'm fine reposting my question there or having it moved if that is a more appropriate location for my question. 

 

Thanks!

 

0 Me gusta

ed57gmc
Mentor
Mentor

If the 1:100 scale isn't listed, you are using a modified template? You can simply add the scale in the SCALELISTEDIT command. Make sure the scale is 1 paperspace unit to 100 model units. If you edit the 1"=100' scale you will see that it applies a factor of 12, 1:1200. This will not work for you if you have feet set as your unit.

Ed


Did you find this post helpful? Feel free to Like this post.
Did your question get successfully answered? Then click on the ACCEPT SOLUTION button.
How to post your code.

EESignature

0 Me gusta

GroveSci
Participant
Participant

Is it a modified template? probably?

The drawing in question comes from a "blank" drawing we keep on file which has our borders, logo, etc. already in place as well as certain XREFS. I did not originate this drawing, however other drawings have the same issue. Including our latest "blank" drawing. 

 

That drawing does list 1:100 as a scale option. However, it experiences the same behavior. In the drawing below I have drawn a 1 inch line in model space (Shown in black). I have traced that line in paper space and moved it up (shown in red). I have used the dimension tool on both, showing that they are both 1 inch in length which is consistent with the 1:1 scale.  I have chosen inches so that feet are never involved. 1" = 1" = 1". Finally, I brought in a bar scale (shown in green) referencing the viewport. I have given it Scale bar division of 12 inches to compensate for the 1:12 Scale Ratio. As you can see the 1st division (marked 12) is 1 inch from the zero mark.Scale Bar error 2.png

If I change the scale ratio to be 1:1. The following happens

Scale Bar error 1.png

0 Me gusta

ed57gmc
Mentor
Mentor

Don't go by what the scale dropdown says. Those are just labels. You need to use the SCALELISTEDIT command to examine each scale for its true ratio. You're still using a scale that applies a factor of 12.

 


@GroveSci wrote:I have chosen inches so that feet are never involved. 1" = 1" = 1".

 


This is what is messing you up. You need to understand how units work. AutoCAD does not recognize 1 unit as any type of length, it is simply one unit. If you change your length type in the UNITS dialog to Decimal, you see what AutoCAD sees, just units. If you apply the Architectural format, it just adds an inch mark to it, the units didn't change, i.e. your drawing model was not scaled. If you change the Insertion Scale to Feet, a block that has its Insertion Scale set to inches will get scaled by a factor of 1/12. If you have a square that is 10 units by 10 units and change the Insertion Scale to meters, the box does not get scaled, you still have a box that is 10x10. In other words, AutoCAD doesn't know that you started out with a box 10"x10". So, when you create your scale list entry, you have to apply the proper ratio so that model space entities appear the correct length when measured in paper space.

Ed


Did you find this post helpful? Feel free to Like this post.
Did your question get successfully answered? Then click on the ACCEPT SOLUTION button.
How to post your code.

EESignature

0 Me gusta

GroveSci
Participant
Participant

I don't seem to have an option to make my drawing completely unitless. but I can change it to metric. Scale Bar error 5.pngScale Bar error 6.pngScale Bar error 7.png

as you said, because of how autocad handles units my original drawing was largely unchanged. 

Scale Bar error 8.png

The units state 1 mm on paperspace equals 1 m in drawing space. But when I attempt to add a scale bar showing how long 1 meter is.

Scale Bar error 10.png

Scale Bar error 11.png

0 Me gusta

ed57gmc
Mentor
Mentor

Why did you switch to metric? Are you using Civil 3D as plain AutoCAD or are you intending to use Civil 3D objects?

Ed


Did you find this post helpful? Feel free to Like this post.
Did your question get successfully answered? Then click on the ACCEPT SOLUTION button.
How to post your code.

EESignature

0 Me gusta

GroveSci
Participant
Participant

I use it as plain autocad 95% of the time (including this time). There are some projects where I need the 3D elements but this isn't one of them. I switched to metric because it was suggested that there was a mismatch with the drawing scale since I wasn't using one of the normal default scales. I figured by switching everything to metric and resetting all of the scales to metric things would start working correctly. This however, is not the case. The bar scale still comes in at a different scale then the associated viewport. 

 

0 Me gusta

ed57gmc
Mentor
Mentor

When you switch subjects, its hard for us to follow along to try and replicate the problem you're having...

 

You have at least 3 problems/steps to solve in your workflow. 1. set the viewport scale, 2. place the scale bar and set it's insertion properties, 3. set the block scale of the scale bar.

 

Before starting, let's back up to understanding units. I have access to Civil 3D but don't use it, so I'm not sure of all the ways that the Civil 3D uses input from the AeccEditDrawingSettings dialog. At minimum, the screen capture you showed uses the info to set variables that can also be accessed from the plain acad UNITS command. What gets stored in the drawing is simply the formatting for a "unit" and the insertion scale for blocks. That scale factor is necessary to know when selecting a scale for your viewport. In the template that comes with C3D, it provides several viewport scale list entries that start with 1" =. That doesn't mean that acad considers a foot as 12". A foot is just a "unit label". So 1"=100' scale list doesn't apply a factor of 12. Its ratio is 1:100. In an architectural scale list such as 1" =1'-0", modelspace units are inches and so the ratio is 1:12.

 

So let's get your viewport scale set. Either go back to a template that has civil scale lists or make one that has a ratio of 1:100. Select the viewport and open the properties palette and select your 1:100 scale.

 

Step 2. Insert your scale bar. Select an imperial one. Select the viewport to associate it with and set its properties. Here's where you're having trouble. You're expecting acad to fill in all the properties for you. You need to know what you want and enter the values. For a vp scale of 1:100, set the divisions to 100 and units to feet. Set the scale ratio to 100.

 

Step 3. For some reason, the scale bar comes in at a scale of 12. I guess acad's automation is not perfect. Remember that it's just a block and you can scale it. Select the block and open the properties palette and set its Scale X, Scale Y, Scale Z properties to 1.

Ed


Did you find this post helpful? Feel free to Like this post.
Did your question get successfully answered? Then click on the ACCEPT SOLUTION button.
How to post your code.

EESignature

0 Me gusta

GroveSci
Participant
Participant

ok, Step 1. I've started with a completely blank drawing and have set my scale to 1:100. I have drawn a line in model space that is 100 units in length (shown in black). I have then gone to paper space and copied that line (shown in red). Measuring each line confirms that the 1:100 scale is working as intended. 1 unit in paper space equals 100 units in model space. 

Scale Bar error 1-Step 1.png

Step 2: I inserted a scale bar as you describe. As soon as I try to place the scale my model space line vanished. Expanding the view port to the right reveals that my model space line (still measuring at 100 units) is now substantially larger and no longer fits on my paper space. 

Scale Bar error 1-Step 2a.pngScale Bar error 1-Step 2b.png

Scale Bar error 1-Step 2d.png

Scale Bar error 1-Step 2c.png

Step 3: This largely is unnecessary. The scale bar is an appropriate size. The first mark is 1 inch in length and indicates that length is 100 units long. Unfortunately, when I select my view port I see that the scale for the view port is no longer 1:100. The view port scale has been changed to 0.1200000

Scale Bar error 1-Step 3.png

0 Me gusta

ed57gmc
Mentor
Mentor

I don't know how you're changing the viewport scale, but after you set the vp scale, lock it. While you have the vp selected, go to the properties palette and change the Display Locked property to Yes.

Ed


Did you find this post helpful? Feel free to Like this post.
Did your question get successfully answered? Then click on the ACCEPT SOLUTION button.
How to post your code.

EESignature

0 Me gusta

GroveSci
Participant
Participant

When I change the view port scale back to 1:100, two things happen. The model space bar returns back to being the way it was and my scale bar shrinks to 1/12th its original size. I then locked the view port. Bringing up the Scale Bar Properties shows that it now has a scale ratio of 1:1200. When I change the scale ratio of the scale bar to 1:100. The viewport once again changes to a scale of 0.1200000. Even though it's locked. 

Scale Bar error 1-Step 4a.pngScale Bar error 1-Step 4b.pngScale Bar error 1-Step 4C.pngScale Bar error 1-Step 4D.pngScale Bar error 1-Step 4e.png

0 Me gusta

GroveSci
Participant
Participant

I wanted to give an update for anyone else encountering this issue. I submitted a ticket on this issue and was put in touch with a tech support person. After working with him, he confirmed that what I was experiencing was an issue with the software and not user error and he escalated my ticket. He had me create the following video demonstrating the error.

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/community/screencast/c9ca0930-9dda-469e-b53c-83d9ed2ca508

 

Once the ticket was escalated I started working with a new person. They had me use teamshare so that they could directly observe the issue. After observing what was happening they too agreed that this was a software issue and had a meeting with the developers. After the meeting it was decided that nothing was to be done about the issue and my ticket was closed. The tech support person I was working with apologized that my issue was not resolved and directed me to the software feedback section. 

 

I can't help but feel that because at a glance the issue comes across as user error the design team simply dismissed it without looking at any of the information I provided. While I'm experiencing this problem with 2018, the first tech support person I was working with confirmed that the issue also exists in 2019. 

 

I've found 2 temporary work arounds for this problem which are not ideal but are better then nothing.

 

The first is to setup the scale bar 12 times larger then what you want. This causes it to be sized correctly with wrong numbers. You can then double click on the numbers and change them to be correct.

 

The second option is to set up the scale bar correctly and then use the scale tool on the scale bar and increase its size by 12. This also results in a scale bar that is the right size with the right numbers. 

 

The downside to both of these is that certain events in the software will cause the scale bar to "fix" its self causing the numbers to be wrong or for it to shrink (depending on which work around is used).  It would be nice if it just worked correctly, but that seems to be too much to ask. 

 

0 Me gusta

pendean
Community Legend
Community Legend
In 3-4 weeks of posting I see you managed to avoid sharing a DWG file with the problem for others to tinker with and explore on their own without your input, may I ask why?

Or do you just need to create and use a new/different annotative scale bar block?

0 Me gusta