AutoCAD 2023 - Point Style Behaviour on Defpoints Layer.

[Over-Dose]

When using the Point Style command in the previous versions of AutoCAD (on Windows), I've always been able to draw point styles at whatever the settings I set up are, irrespective of the layer I am drawing on at the time.

In AutoCAD 2023, when using point style ("Set Relative To Screen" OR "Size Set In Absolute Units") while on the "Defpoints" layer, the points styles no longer follow whatever the display setting is set to.

I honestly thought it was an issue with specific drawings, but realised (by sheer fluke) that the issue only happens when Defpoints is the active layer.

Before I'm asked "why are you drawing on the defpoints layer, the layer doesn't print, and I often draw temporary items that I later delete, or retain as non-printing on defpoints.

But I can't understand why this would be made to behave like this, and whether it's intentional or a bug.

Any info would be appreciated.

[Kent1Cooper]

Points on DEFPOINTS don't follow the Point Style setting in Acad2020, either, and I think they may never have done so.  All the more reason not to use that Layer for your personal purposes, but to leave it to AutoCAD's internal usage as intended.  The use of DEFPOINTS just to have things not plot is a stale holdover from the time, long ago, when that was the only Layer that did not plot, but it has been a   v  e  r  y    l  o  n  g    t  i  m  e   since it became possible to designate any Layer to not plot.  So make yourself a non-plotting Layer for the purpose, with a name that has something to do with what the Points [and/or other things] represent.

[Over-Dose]

I won't argue about whether Points have always behaved this way since 2020, since that was a while since I last used that version. However the way I'm setting up the current drawings always allowed for quick setting up of construction lines (or other temporary items) even on the Defpoints layer, without the points issue I just highlighted.

And to your suggestion for using a layer that is essentially a "Defpoints light" 😂, we already have various layers setup for this purpose and use them successfully in conjunction with Defpoints.

It was just a surprise to notice this behaviour.

Thanks for the response, and you have yourself a lovely day / week now. 😉 

[dbroad · Accepted solution]

As Kent states, points on layer defpoints have always displayed as dots. Thus the name, "DEFPOINTS".  Imagine for a bit, if point styles governed how all the point nodes in dimensions displayed. It would be a complete mess when plotted.

As opposed to Kent, there are a few very useful reasons to use defpoints as opposed to other non-plottable layers.  For example, including points on layer defpoints  in block definitions is a key to making mvblocks sizeable in AutoCAD Architecture.  Also, points on layer defpoints are keys to getting dimensions to be associative with dynamic blocks and with elements within arrays.  Points at insertion points on blocks within xrefs are handy since "INS" snap usually won't work within an xref.

I often use temporary lines, xlines, rays, and points on layer defpoints, but also often move drawn objects to layer defpoints rather than erasing them just in case a client changes their mind about deleting a feature.  One key to avoid accidentally putting stuff on layer defpoints is to give that layer a unique color.  I use color 140, which shows up in color in layouts for most CTB plot styles.  You also need to keep layer 0 on and thawed.

I agree with Kent about using other non-plottable layers for things like notes to the drafter.

The points on your image that are noted as being on layer defpoints probably are on a different layer.  Be sure to check. My 2023 shows all points on layer defpoints as single dots, regardless of point size.

[Over-Dose]

@dbroad - Thanks for your response, and you've covered the very typical usage where we often resort to the "non-commital" use of the Defpoints layer for the kind of information that you've described.

But we also happily use non-plottable layers for other information in different scenarios, as stated in response to Kent.

Regarding my situation (screenshot sent above), this is definitely only happening when creating points (irrespective of size) on the Defpoints layer. When I switch to any other layer (printable or not), they revert to standard behaviour.

It's most definitely not a train smash of any kind, but as I stated based on past recollection, used to work as you've described even in your version of 2023.

[dbroad]

Check to see if you've got all the 2023 updates.  Points on layer defpoints shouldn't ever look like circles (per your image). They always look like dots. If they were created with the divide or measure command, make sure that they aren't blocks instead of points.

[Over-Dose]

@dbroad - Oh I think I misled you with the red cirlces. That was me marking on the screenshot how the points appears as dots on layer "Defpoints".

I've attached a screenshot without a markup to show what I actually see.

Sorry for the confusion. 😁

[pendean · Accepted solution]

AutoCAD 2023.1 here

[paullimapa]

not true...AutoCAD's DEFPOINTS layer is special. PTYPE changes to PDSIZE & PDMODE settings have no impact on the display of POINT objects on that layer. I just tried it in AutoCAD 2020.

[Over-Dose]

@pendean  - Yep.

Am on the same version here, and that's the behaviour I get also.

Thanks for checking and confirming.

[Over-Dose]

@paullimapa - Like I said I'm not arguing about it on this current version, or as far back as 2020, which was mentioned earlier.

But I've honestly never noticed this behaviour. And since I don't have a much older (prior to 2020) install of AutoCAD to test this my side.

So I'm happy to concede IF I am mistaken on this, but as I said I've always used points on any layer and never noticed this before.

Thanks for the comment. 🙂

[pendean]

@Over-Dose Great, that's how it is supposed to work. So there is no issue. See below from R2020.1.5, it does the same thing. So do 2021 and 2022 here.

If you used a much older year-version and it did something else then that died with that year-version, it is no longer an option.

[dbroad]

That's exactly what you should see by design.

[dvicarioXT]

The more I use Autocad, the more I know it, and the more I hate it. It's really a shame that I currently have no alternatives to it for my specific job and company policy. This is only the last example of some sort of made-up standard that makes absolutely no sense.