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Footprints with multiple blocks not exploded on 2nd insertion

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Message 1 of 25
jmatel
4799 Views, 24 Replies

Footprints with multiple blocks not exploded on 2nd insertion

I insert a panel footprint assembly through the schematic list and it works fine the first time, the smart block takes the catalog number and I am able to move the dumb blocks. However, everytime after that it inserts all of the blocks as one smart block instead of exploded into a smart block and other dumb blocks. This error only occurs with parts inserted through the schematic list, enclosures worked fine everytime as they were inserted through the panel icon menu. I have tried 4 different catalog numbers that I have assembly footprints for and they all do the same thing, fine the first time but wrong everytime after that.

 

To make the assembly footprints I first made a smart footprint through the symbol builder, inserted it into a drawing, added the dumb blocks and then wblocked it all. I have the asterisk in the footprint lookup database to excplode the drawing. I use the multiple catalog feature instead of the assembly codes.

 

I have been working on this all day with no luck, any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.

 

Thanks,

Joe

24 REPLIES 24
Message 2 of 25
dougmcalexander
in reply to: jmatel

Are you inserting them into the same drawing by chance? If so, the original block that was inserted will take precedence over the new insertion.  Remember how AutoCAD works.  If you insert a block into a drawing one time, any subsequent insertions actually use the block that already exists, even though you may have selected the block by navigating to the file.  Even if you delete all instances of the block, you will still get the original one that was inserted, unless you purge the drawing of all unused blocks after you delete them.  I wonder if this might be tripping you up?



Doug McAlexander


Design Engineer/Consultant/Instructor/Mentor specializing in AutoCAD Electrical training and implementation support

Phone and Web-based Support Plans Available

Phone: (770) 841-8009

www.linkedin.com/in/doug-mcalexander-1a77623




Please Accept as Solution if I helped you. Likes are also much appreciated.
Message 3 of 25
jmatel
in reply to: dougmcalexander

Thank you for the reply Doug. I did not create the footprint in the drawing, we have drawings with dumb blocks that I use to create my footprints in which is seperate from the drawing it was inserted on. I suspected from the beginning that this was part of the problem though so i tried purging, however I don't think this is the solution. Reason being that the first footprint insertion is correct and in order to purge I would need to delete the first instance I believe. I did try deleting the first instance and then purging the blocks just to see what would happen. I was shocked to find that it still inserted the wrong footprint assembly.

 

I also had a coworker try this and he had the same issue and he was baffled as well.

 

Thanks,

Joe

 

 

Message 4 of 25
dougmcalexander
in reply to: jmatel

You only need to purge if you deleted all blocks and expect to insert a fresh one from the library.  If you don't purge after deleting, the software will use the one that is leftover in the drawing file after deletion, rather than spin up the hard drive.  It is an old AutoCAD trick that still serves us today to gain some speed.

 

But, if you have an instance where the blocks has already been inserted and exploded, and you try to insert the same block again, this could create confusion.  I will have to look more into this. I am preparing for a trip at the moment.



Doug McAlexander


Design Engineer/Consultant/Instructor/Mentor specializing in AutoCAD Electrical training and implementation support

Phone and Web-based Support Plans Available

Phone: (770) 841-8009

www.linkedin.com/in/doug-mcalexander-1a77623




Please Accept as Solution if I helped you. Likes are also much appreciated.
Message 5 of 25
jmatel
in reply to: dougmcalexander

I think ACE is holding onto the block internally somehow, but I find it weird that it allows me to purge the assembly block even with the first footprint still present and then still uses that same assembly block without exploding it. The only work around I have found for this bug is to explode the second footprint and then manually link the smart footprint from the assembly to the schematic tag.

 

Thanks for the help,

Joe

Message 6 of 25
dougmcalexander
in reply to: jmatel

I haven't been able to reproduce the problem on my end with version 2015.  I inserted a RITTAL E302416 enclosure into the same drawing twice.  It explodes each time as it should.  Try to insert the same enclosure twice and see what happens.  This is a block with three blocks inside, that is supplied by Autodesk.  If this enclosure works for you, then you may have an issue with your block.



Doug McAlexander


Design Engineer/Consultant/Instructor/Mentor specializing in AutoCAD Electrical training and implementation support

Phone and Web-based Support Plans Available

Phone: (770) 841-8009

www.linkedin.com/in/doug-mcalexander-1a77623




Please Accept as Solution if I helped you. Likes are also much appreciated.
Message 7 of 25
jmatel
in reply to: dougmcalexander

No my enclosures have worked fine, it is only items inserted on the schematic first and then inserted through the Panel-Schematic List feature. I tried this yesterday with enclosures that I have made and ones provided by ACE, both work fine. Example would be an enclosure cooling fan. I put the fan on the schematic, then the footprint lookup inserts an assembly with two smart footprints and a cutout. I attached the example assembly footprint.

 

Thanks,

Joe

Message 8 of 25
dougmcalexander
in reply to: jmatel

I think your workflow could be the issue.  I can't imagine it working at all.  The insert from Schematic LIst function expects one set of attributes in the footprint you have mapped in the Footprint_Lookup database.  It will attempt to copy the attribute values from the schamtic component to the related footprint.  It sounds like you may have two footprints, both with the same attributes in them, after the explode.  I thiought you were handling it like an enclosure.  One block that inserts, explodes into three in the example I gave, but only one block has attributes.



Doug McAlexander


Design Engineer/Consultant/Instructor/Mentor specializing in AutoCAD Electrical training and implementation support

Phone and Web-based Support Plans Available

Phone: (770) 841-8009

www.linkedin.com/in/doug-mcalexander-1a77623




Please Accept as Solution if I helped you. Likes are also much appreciated.
Message 9 of 25
jmatel
in reply to: dougmcalexander

No that is not the issue, the correct smart footprint gets stuffed and the other footprint holds the filter catalog number. I attached a disconnect switch that I had the same issue on. On the first insert, the switch will get the attributes and the handle will be a seperate block. On the second insert, the switch and handle will be lumped into one block.

 

Thanks,

Joe

Message 10 of 25
jmatel
in reply to: jmatel

It appears no one else is running into this issue but I will try again since it is annoying me again today. Since posting this I have switched to 2015 and have the same issue. To duplicate:

 

1. Place two schematic symbols, both with part number:

Eurotherm, 3204/VH.........

2. Add attached footprint to footprint lookup database under:

Eurotherm, 3204*

3. Insert footprints by schematic list

 

The first one inserts fine with the smart footprint taking the part number and the other block is independent. The second time it all inserts as one block and ACE turns it into a smart footprint. I've tried purging in between insertions with no luck.

 

Thanks for the help.

Joe

 

 

Message 11 of 25
PatMurnen_Adsk
in reply to: jmatel

Joe,

 

I am able to reproduce what you described. At first glance it appears to be an issue with the feature, not your setup. I will investigate further and log it if necessary. I will post here once I have more information.

 

Regards,

Pat Murnen



Pat Murnen
Principal Content Developer
Product Development – AutoCAD Product Line Group

Autodesk, Inc.

Message 12 of 25

After investigating this it looks like the issue is in the feature not at your end. I logged it into the system. Logging it means that is is looked at and prioritized.

 

It looks like the command is keeping track of catalog information and footprints it inserts so it doesn't have to look them up in the footprint database each time. However, it appears to be losing the "*" when it saves the footprint information. So after the first time it is inserted, the command finds that it already looked up a particular catalog info and uses the same footprint as before but without the "*".

 

I don't see a good workaround. You could exit out of the dialog, reset some global variables and then restart the dialog. A bit cumbersome but would work I think. Let me know if you want to try it.

 

Regards,

Pat Murnen



Pat Murnen
Principal Content Developer
Product Development – AutoCAD Product Line Group

Autodesk, Inc.

Message 13 of 25
jmatel
in reply to: PatMurnen_Adsk

Thanks for looking into this Pat. For now I am OK with just exploding and manualy assigning the correct tag to the smart footprint, I think that is ACE kosher.

 

Thanks,

Joe

Message 14 of 25
PatMurnen_Adsk
in reply to: jmatel

Joe,

 

Yes, exploding and assigning the information to the smart block will take care of it.

 

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Pat

 



Pat Murnen
Principal Content Developer
Product Development – AutoCAD Product Line Group

Autodesk, Inc.

Message 15 of 25
gcsjlewis
in reply to: jmatel

I know its been awhile, but did you ever find an answer to this problem?  I have been using autocad electrical 2011 for about 5 years now, and just this past week, all of a sudden i am running into the same thing.  

Message 16 of 25
PatMurnen_Adsk
in reply to: gcsjlewis

Hi manamalewis,

 

As far as I can see this has not been resolved in recent releases of AutoCAD Electrical. The only workaround is to explode and edit the Tag after insertion. Sorry I didn't have better news.

 

Regards,

Pat Murnen



Pat Murnen
Principal Content Developer
Product Development – AutoCAD Product Line Group

Autodesk, Inc.

Message 17 of 25
gcsjlewis
in reply to: PatMurnen_Adsk

OK Thanks! We are upgrading soon, I just thought it was weird that out of nowhere that happened....Thanks again
Message 18 of 25
Thomasbatson
in reply to: gcsjlewis

I know this is a very old thread and the re-answered in 2017 but we still see this in ACADE 2018.  Are there any solutions that have come up since?

 

Thank you.

Message 19 of 25
gcsjlewis
in reply to: Thomasbatson

As of right now, i am still having the same issue.  Have yet to find a solution.

Message 20 of 25
darrell.l.gregg
in reply to: jmatel

try this:

insert the first one. it will explode as desired...

insert the second one... it will not explode.

 

do blockswap on second one using first one... viola!

keeps data for second one on second one, whew!

The other views can be copied over to the second one using similar basepoint.

 

 

 

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