symbol naming do's and don'ts, mostly don'ts

[matthew.heath39VNU]

I know the HELP file says don't use the letter V as the 2nd character in a block name, actually it says this: "Important: Do not use "HH", "HV", "VH", or "VV" as the first two characters of a symbol block name."

BUT, here's the thing, I WANT to use V as the 2nd character.  I am making a symbol for a voltage transformer, the first of multiple voltage transformer symbols, and I'd like to use VT as the 2nd & 3rd characters of the block names.  This will differentiate the blocks from current transformers (CT) and potential transformers (PT).

I know if I use VT as the 2nd & 3rd characters the catalog lookup will say it can't find a table for T, because it ignores V as the 2nd character.  But I can use the WDBLKNAM attribute to drive the catalog lookup to the correct table.

So, here's the question; are there other functions of the program that look at the 2nd character of the block name that would ignore it if it were a V, or H for that matter?

(And what about WDBLKNAM?  Seems to be a weird name for an attribute, since the program can already look at the block name if it wants to, why make an attribute that just repeats the block name?  I know it doesn't have to be the block name, and it won't be for our use, it is just that the attribute name is odd to me.  Maybe WDTABNAM?)

Thanks

Matt

[TRLitsey]

Hi there,

I am believing you are referring to schematic symbols?  If so, one answer would be the V = vertical and H = horizontal.  Let us say you insert a pushbutton from the Icon Menu.  When the insertion point is selected on a wire ACE checks the wire position.  Is it up and down or is it left and right.  The out of the box library will have two symbols with very similar names.  The only difference is the V is the vertical version and the H is the horizontal version.  I know It looks as though ACE rotates the symbol but really it selecting one or the other block to insert depending on the wire orientation.  If you follow the recommended naming conventions which are designed to tell ACE how to handle the symbol, you can finish the name off with whatever you want.  Which is to say if you have a pushbutton name HPB11 you can create a custom symbol from it and name it HPB11_MY_CUSTOM_PUSHBUTTON and ACE will still know how to handle the symbol.  Each character at the beginning of the name is like instructions telling ACE what it is and what features it has.  If ACE has enough information at the beginning of the symbol name it simply ignores whatever else is tagged onto the end.  Except special characters of course.  It would be worth your time to search this board.  It will have many posts for various uses of the ACE naming conventions and the applications.

WDBLKNAM  = Wire Diagram Block Name  -  is a throw back to when Electrical Specific symbols and tools were being introduced into CAD software.

Good luck

[Icemanau]

Transformers are generally under XF for the family and 2nd & 3rd characters in the file name.

If the developers say not to use something, they generally have a reason for doing so and doing it anyway will only lead to frustration as problems appear.

As a workaround, there are several methods to differentiate between different types of devices.

After the first 5 characters, there is no problem with naming the blocks what you want.

I have several CT blocks that are named VXF1_ in the first five characters, but after that, I have described what each block shows.

For example, VXF1_10S 4 RATIO, translates to Vertical Wire Connections, Transformer, Parent, 10mm spacing on the legs, 4 different ratios (3 centre taps and 1 full). I also have child blocks to match and set the QTY for each parent to 3 to ensure that each block in the set matches

Another block has HXF1_3P STAR-STAR-OPEN DELTA which is a 3 phase transformer Star Primary, Star Secondary and Open Delta Tertiary winding setup.

If you add them to the Icon Menu, you can break them up by whatever method you want.

For example, As I use a lot of CT's, I moved the CT Sub Menu out of the Transformers Menu to the Main Menu.

You could create different Sub Menus under Transformers to account for the different types you create/use.

Another way to differentiate between the various types of transformers is to add the TYPE attribute to your block. Set the default to match the transformer type and the when you do a catalogue lookup, just do a search for the type.

Regards Brad

[rhesusminus · Accepted solution]

I asked the same here:

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/autocad-electrical-forum/symbol-block-name-shouldn-start-with-vv-hv-v...

I got this answer from Autodesk via mail:

Dear Trond Hasse,

to start a symbol name with “VV”, “HV”, “VH”, “HH”, Its not forbidden, but:
AutoCAD Electrical uses the symbol name for schematic symbols to determine the catalog table name.
It drops the initial H or V (which indicates if it is horizontal or vertical symbol), then uses the other
characters in the name to find a matching catalog table. For panel symbols, it does this a little different
because the symbol names for panel do not follow the naming convention. Depending on how the panel symbol is
inserted it gets a WDBLKNAM xdata value to match the schematic symbol name so AutoCAD Electrical can find the
catalog table for the panel symbol. The initial H or V can be dropped at this time. For example, say the
schematic symbol is HPB11, the WDBLKNAM value would be PB11 on the panel symbol. Or say the symbol is HHB11,
the WDBLKNAM value would be HB11. But, later AutoCAD Electrical may see that it still has an initial H or V
and drop it again resulting in B11, and then fails to find the catalog table. 
So it is safer to not use an H or V as the second character in the symbol name to avoid this potential problem.

I'm hopeful that the answer is satisfactory and I close the case
 
Cause	 

 
Andreas Weuthen
Autodesk Inc.

[matthew.heath39VNU]

Thanks Trond, I didn't look back far enough to see your same question.

Am I right though?  I can put the WDBLKNAM attribute in the symbol, preset with a value, and Electrical will look at that to determine the database table, rather than the block name?  At least for schematic symbols?  

I don't want to have to enter individual block names into the database to get the correct table to show up, seems like a big opportunity for error.  I'd rather enter a 2 or 3 character code 

I haven't used panel footprints in Electrical yet, but it sounds like they don't work the same way as schematic symbols.

.... after thinking about this a bit more, and talking to my database programmer, a light went off:  I don't need a panel footprint for a voltage transformer.  A voltage transformer is a big piece of equipment, it doesn't get installed in a panel.

Then another light went off: I can have all the different transformers use XF, or TR or anything, as the 2nd & 3rd characters in the block names and just use a different WDBLKNAM value for each different type, MPT, CT, PT, VT, SD, GT.  The WDBLKNAM value will be the primary key to call the table.

It is slowly starting to make sense to me.

     I still think WDTABNAM would have been a better name for that attribute.

Thanks all,

Matt

[rhesusminus · Accepted solution]

I totally agree. The name's not very logical.
ALSO... You'll need a "placeholder" for the first character in that attribute. It's... Kinda logical 😄
For the block name, it ignores the first character (H or V), so to make it open in the MPT table you must type HMPT, XMPT or _MPT as the value in the WDBLKNAM attribute.

Doug has written about it here: http://www.ecadconsultant.com/tips.html#WDBLKNAM

[matthew.heath39VNU]

Thank you, I think I had seen that on Doug's site before, but I forgot about the placeholder within the attribute value as well.  At least I don't have too many blocks set up yet.