Panel Layouts

Panel Layouts

Anonymous
Not applicable
4,784 Views
8 Replies
Message 1 of 9

Panel Layouts

Anonymous
Not applicable

I am trying to get to grips with panel layout. I was expecting it to be a case of selecting an enclosure then components from the manufacturers lists but that does not seem to be so.

I find that in enclosures, the Schneider and Sarel lists are empty. I have also looked at the Rittal list but that seems to be only NEMA products with imperial measurements and I don't seem to be able to change to IEC symbols as I did with the wiring schematics.

I only seem to be able to find a tutorial showing lamps added to a panel layout, nothing on contactors, cable trunking etc.

Can anyone point me in the right direction please.

 

Regards,

 

Chris. 

0 Likes
Accepted solutions (1)
4,785 Views
8 Replies
Replies (8)
Message 2 of 9

jseefdrumr
Mentor
Mentor
Accepted solution

Unfortunately, there isn't much out there in the way of tutorials. Most of us just jump in the water and hope we can figure out how to swim.

 

An important thing to remember is that the symbols and footprints that come with ACADE aren't meant to be all-inclusive. There will (frequently) be times when you are using a component that is not in any of the libraries or catalogs. It is just part of working with this software, and I for one don't think it's unreasonable. Manufacturers are free to change their product lines as they see fit, and it would be cost-prohibitive for Autodesk to run down each one and see what changes have been made to their products prior to each new release of ACADE (which is already expensive enough). In the end, it is our responsibilty as CAD operators to insure our drawings are accurate. Autodesk helps, but it's unfair to expect them to do our whole job for us.

 

With that being said, I can only offer some insight/suggestions. This is how I do things, they may or may not work for you.

 

The information presented in the catalogs is provided by the manufacturer, so you may find things listed in either metric or imperial. Since the blocks are drawn at true scale (or should be), their actual measurements will be right -- you'll just sometimes have to scale them up or down at the metric scale factor (25.4 or .0039370079).

 

I've never done a panel layout in which every component was already included in ACADE. In fact, I'm betting most of my layouts are about 5% prepackaged blocks; I draw the rest. Luckily, we use many of the same components repeatedly, so it doesn't really take long to do the layouts anymore. At the beginning, though, I spent quite some time making blocks.

 

Even if you do end up using a lot of prepackaged blocks, most will require some level of tweaking. At the least, you'll probably need to add wipeouts since most footprints don't have them. The terminals usually do, but not much else. So any time you need to use a packaged component that goes on a DIN rail, you'll probably need to add a wipeout manually. In short, doing layouts is going to require a good bit of block editing/creation no matter what you do.

 

Also, a large number of the prepackaged footprint blocks are simple rectangles or other basic shapes that don't have any kind of detail. We like our panel layouts to resemble as closely as possible what they will look like once built in the real world, so I want footprints that look real. I've also learned that many of the included footprints are drawn at the incorrect dimensions compared to current manufacturer specs. Therefore, I no longer use any of ACADE's out-of-the-box footprints (except for buttons, pilot lights, etc). I now draw almost every single footprint myself, basing them on whatever CAD files I can find online. I keep a separate folder for custom footprints. The attached image is of a mostly complete panel layout from a current project. It shows mostly I/O and some fuse blocks. The only prepackaged blocks I used were the DIN rails and wireways.

 

Our general workflow for interior panel layouts is to bring in the enclosure, set DIN rails and wireways, and then bring in components. I often do this piecemeal as the schematics come together. Finalizing the panel drawings occurs during the final phase of a project. Generating my terminal strip is also among the last things I do, followed by annotation adjustments.

 

My preferred method for placing a footprint in a drawing is to either insert from the schematic list or to insert manually. I only use the panel icon menu for wireways and DIN rails, usually it only goes so far before making you navigate the rest of the path to the drawing you need anyway. (If I have to manually navigate to its location anyway, then why use the icon menu at all?)

 

Inserting footprints via the schematic list helps you keep proper track of what's been laid out and what hasn't. It also prevents multiple catalog assignments from appearing on your BOM. Another thing to look out for is your item numbering. Don't assign item numbers during the balloon command; for some bizarre reason it can damage certain things in the drawing files (notably LINKTERM and terminal strips). This is documented in the forums, but AFAIK there is no solution yet. I resequence item numbers before inserting any balloons to prevent problems.

 

Most of what I learned about doing panel layouts in ACADE I taught myself through trial and error. However, Doug McAlexander's website proved very useful to me for this and many other things. You can find it here.

 

Good luck,

 

Jim

 

 

 



Jim Seefeldt
Electrical Engineering Technician


0 Likes
Message 3 of 9

Anonymous
Not applicable

Thanks Jim,

That was very helpful.

I normally do my panel layouts on ACAD 2002 so build up my own blocks. I was hoping this version would be more pick and place, but back to the real world.

Thanks again for the very useful insight. Your sample layout looks great. Lots of component detail there.

 

Regards,

 

Chris. 

0 Likes
Message 4 of 9

Anonymous
Not applicable

Just to add on what Jim has said you will find that many compoenents have Autocad models readily available to download online for free. This is something I have done to build up an archive of components and will save time. For instance to build a trend module myself would probably take the best part of half a day whereas it's only 30 seconds to download online!

 

But Jim is right though, prety much all of us just had to teach ourselves most applications through trial and error. I have found these forums invaluable for my learning of the software, I would always recomend coming on every now and again for 10 minutes just to see what people are talking about, their problems and solutions. You will always learn new ways of doing things. Bes of luck!

0 Likes
Message 5 of 9

ccad2509
Advisor
Advisor

 jseefdrumr

 

yes I pretty much agree with m the majority of your post with this very specific objection

 

"Manufacturers are free to change their product lines as they see fit, and it would be cost-prohibitive for Autodesk to run down each one and see what changes have been made to their products prior to each new release of ACADE"

 

this is one of those things that make my blood boil other CAE manufactures use a perfectly reasonable method to get parts data to their users but Autodesk steadfastly refuse to use this method

 

From previous posts from Autodesk staff make it quit plain that they want manufactures to produce fully functional footprints for Autodesk with no net gain for them (this does not work hence the multitude postings regarding incorrect out of date data)

 

This is what Autodesk currently refuse to do

 

Other cad manufactures if you have paid there subscription links directly into a server to download parts and technical details for component manufactures directly into your drawing and updates your databases

 

now what do the component manufactures get in return?

well they get sales leads as per the terms and conditions of the data portal

 

this works and I get weekly updates on these data portals

 

FYI when I’m using these other electrical cad programmes

 

my back plates are the opposite of yours 95%+ footprints downloaded from the data portal

 

it works and works well so when is ACADE going to do this ?

 

Still Just a user

Not A Consultant 

 

 

0 Likes
Message 6 of 9

Anonymous
Not applicable

Thanks for your help.

 

Regards,

 

Chris.

0 Likes
Message 7 of 9

Anonymous
Not applicable

I agree with what you said there, I have been using this on a free trail and was expecting it to be more click and place. Considering the high price of this package I am supprised it is not. I don't think this line about manufacturers chaning products carries much weight, if they are changing the physical size of their component then yes it needs updating, but a lot of changes are cosmetic or minor and does that really matter. If you want an exact representation take a photo.

 

Regards,

 

Chris.

0 Likes
Message 8 of 9

Anonymous
Not applicable

 

"now what do the component manufactures get in return?

well they get sales leads as per the terms and conditions of the data portal"

 

Some MFG's don't seem to care. When ACADe was written, there was a hard-coded link to your installed (Allen-Bradley) abcad software.......which opens their software for configuration of the exact component. I have begged and pleaded (and continue to do so) with every Rockwell/AB rep that they need to write a 64 bit .arx to restore this functionality. However, Rockwell/AB software now has hooks to directly export to E-Plan......so it would appear that ACADe is low on their priority list.

 

ESCAD has a method to export terminal block info into Weidmuller's configuration software. I would love to be able to use that; rather than ACADe's own terminal strip editor.

0 Likes
Message 9 of 9

ccad2509
Advisor
Advisor

"Some MFG's don't seem to care.

When ACADe was written,

there was a hard-coded link to your installed (Allen-Bradley) abcad software.......which opens their software for configuration of the exact"

 

I think Nate Holt wrote the link before wd toolbox was swallowed up by Autodesk which get me back to my original point

 

Autodesk's policy here is not to engage with the component manufactures hence the manufactures apathy towards Autodesk and the variable quality of

 

the parts data

 

just google eplan macros and see how many component manufactures have there own data in eplan on there own website

 

same goes for wscad and in a limited way see electrical

 

when you do the same for acade i cant find a single website at present that has acade enabled dwg files

 

some people may argue you just download the dwgs from there website and run them through the symbol/footprint  utility

 

but if the manufactures could see a benefit to them then parts data would be freely avalable but the guys at autodesk dont seem to get that !!!

 

Just a User

Not A Consultant

 

0 Likes