Icon Menu to show IEC components

[Anonymous]

Trying to get the Insert component menue to show the IEC symbols not JIC

I have downloaded all the right standards but it will still only show me JIC

I looked in the lib file and the IEC2/4/6061 libraries are there

How do i get those to come up on the insert component menu

Thanks in advance 

[dougmcalexander]

The Libs folder is where the library folders reside.  The individual library folders inside the Libs folder contain the actual symbol files (a.k.a. blocks).  They are .DWG files.  The menu is a separate file with a .DAT extension located at:

C:\Users\Douglas McAlexander\AppData\Roaming\Autodesk\AutoCAD Electrical 2018\R22.0\enu\Support

Substitute your user name for mine of course.  I will attach a screen capture of this folder.

I have also included a screen capture that shows where you assign the library folder(s) and the menu you wish to use for your project.  AutoCAD Electrical is very flexible because you can select from a menu you are familiar with and the software will insert the corresponding symbol from whichever library you have assigned.  When I teach outside of the U.S. I show my students how to design using American symbols when they aren't familiar with ANSI (American symbols) but need to provide "American-looking" drawings to their customer.  I have them set their menu to ACE_IEC_MENU.DAT or ACE_IEC-60617_MENU.DAT, but I have them set the Schematic Library folder path to NFPA and NFPA/1- so the actual symbols inserted are from an American style library folder.  

I do the reverse of the above method for my American customers when I teach them how to use AutoCAD Electrical to design for International customers.  Of course, eventually I want them to become familiar with the IEC symbols themselves.  But until they do, they can assign the menu they are familiar with and and assign the library for the market where they are shipping the control panels.  It will actually help them become familiar with the symbols of the other country.  I had people in Germany yelling "Aha!  So that is what an American push-button looks like!"  They had inserted it using the IEC menu but the library was assigned to the NFPA folder.

AutoCAD Electrical allows you to designate the specific menu and libraries to use on a per-project basis, so when you activate an American style project you will most likely have assigned the NFPA menu and library and the software will begin using those.  If you later activate a IEC style project and you have it assigned to use the IEC menu and libraries, the software will start using IEC symbols.  If you copy a project to begin a new design or a variation of a design, the symbol library and menu paths copy as well.  Other programs require you to set the symbol library globally, so you have to remember to change it when you switch back and forth between IEC and NFPA.

Note: The NFPA library is the more current symbol library for America, not JIC.  Hint: The NFPA/1- folder contains symbols for one-line diagrams.  If you will not be creating one-line diagrams you do not need this folder added to the library list but it is good to keep it there just in case you ever do need to create a one-line diagram.  

On day one of my class we configure the wd.env (environment) file to allow for default library and menu paths simply by clicking on Default in the Project Properties dialog.  I could cover all of the necessary setup and configuration tasks in one day via Web-conference. I do this for my support plan customers.

[Anonymous]

Thanks Doug

If i could talk my company into paying you i gladly would

I think they enjoy me suffering

[dougmcalexander]

I'm sorry to hear that.  Hang in there.  These are very marketable skills you are developing.

[Anonymous]

I finally got my title block working. 

What do you do dough if your title block is very small compared to components out of the insert icon list?

For example, i just added a PLC module but its like 90 times to big for the title block

There must be a way to get it to scale automatically right? 

[dougmcalexander]

You have to be sure that your drawing border is sized for the size symbols you are using. The JIC and NFPA symbols are made to fit ANSI C and D size drawing borders. ANSI D is 34" wide by 22" tall. The IEC symbols are made to fit A3 and A4 size metric drawings, so they are 25.4 times bigger than their NFPA or JIC equivalent symbols. If you are inserting IEC symbols into an ANSI D size drawing you need to set the scale in the Icon menu dialog box to 0.03937. If you are attempting to insert NFPA symbols into a metric sized drawing set the scale to 25.4. However I recommend that you create a drawing border sized according to the design standard you will use. Some symbols get inserted by the software automatically (they are called features) such as node dots and angled tees for example.  Setting the scale factor on the Icon menu dialog will not affect symbols that are inserted by the software automatically.  

Some people try to use the Feature Scale Multiplier under Drawing Properties to set a metric to English or vice versa conversion but this can cause problems with how the software interprets line references and zones for tagging and cross-referencing.  It is best to create a drawing border for the size symbols you will use.  If you really must use one size border for all, then make a backup copy of the symbol library you will use and use the Modify Symbol Library utility to scale everything in the library folder to fit your chosen drawing size.  This will solve the issue with features not inserting at the correct scale.  

I try to avoid using a scale factor on the Icon menu dialog as I insert symbols. And I consider the Feature Scale Multiplier as a place where I can make fine adjustments to the symbol scaling.  I teach my students not to use a Feature Scale Multiplier larger than 2 or smaller than 0.5.  This will help avoid problems.  If I need to use the NFPA symbols as delivered by Autodesk in an ANSI B size drawing, I might set the Feature Scale Multiplier to 0.5.  This will insert the symbols and features at half their original size, which works out nicely for an ANSI B size drawing since it is have of a D size.  

The sample I attached earlier is an ANSI D size, which is 34 X 22 inches. There is a utility called the Modify Symbol Library Utility which can scale an entire symbol library. I recommend you make a backup of the library folder first. If you want IEC symbols to fit an ANSI D drawing, scale the IEC symbols by 0.03937. Just search for the Modify Symbol Library utility in Help.

[rhesusminus]

All IEC symbols are metric. Create your own template as metric as well. User ACADISO.dwt as a template for you new template.
(Or set the scaling of the components to 0.03937. NOT recommended)

[Anonymous]

Thanks for all the suggestions guys

Really much apprecaited. Sorry i was not able to get back with anyone yesterday. I was away at a seminar.

So for my scaling issue.

What do you think is best?

Can i take the title block i just spent a bunch of time on and scale it somehow?

Or do i need to start over and use the template that was suggested for the appropriate size?

[Anonymous]

Hi Sir,

I was struggling to insert the correct libraries and schematic icons and I think I succeeded in inserting those.

However when I tried to insert an IEC symbol in my drawing it still inserted the NFPA symbol even when my menu shows IEC symbols. 

I tried deleting the other libraries and now I get an error that the needed file for the symbol is not found (Screenshots inserted below).

Any ideas how to solve this? 

[Anonymous]

Hi Doug, 

I managed to solve the issue in the meantime. No need to reply anymore. 

Thanks for the instructions above, really helpful! 

[andrewH6NGQ]

Hi Doug (@dougmcalexander), this answer you gave a few years ago was very helpful for the problem I was having yesterday!

I am very new to ACADE and to control cabinet design but I need to come up to speed quickly. In the design that I am muddling through, I am bringing 3-phase delta from the building into my cabinet's main disconnect switch and then sending it right out to a 15kVA 3-phase delta-to-wye (480V/480Y) isolation transformer and then bringing it right back into the panel into a breaker to feed all of my devices. The reason I am doing this is because my servo drives require wye-wound source to be UL compliant and I cannot choose different drives per the engineers above me.

My first attempt was to use the Circuit Builder tool but when choosing the transformer as the load it places it with only the primary visible and not the secondary. So then I figured I should be using the Icon Menu, but JIC didn't have any 3-phase transformers even though the IEEE library does, hence my finding of your solution to changing the menu. So, I can now get the transformer I need onto the page, but since I'm not using Circuit Builder it isn't automatically sizing my wires for me (10AWG).

Now for my question:

Is there an equivalent way to get the Circuit Builder to use different symbols when generating branches so that I can show my machine having an isolation transformer and so that it will automatically size the wires to make this project go quicker?

[dougmcalexander]

I’m not a fan of the circuit builder.  I teach it in my advanced class for those who insist upon using it.  I show it in demos when requested, because it looks impressive.  However, I find the more efficient way to use the software is by creating saved circuits with every symbol and wire predefined and saved in the circuit, including part number assignments.  I can insert this circuit, increase the wire size assignment and change part numbers, and save as another circuit, for higher amperage, and so forth and so on.  The only thing different between this method and the circuit builder is that I choose the wire size myself, using an ampacity chart.  For a control panel, or wire in conduit, I choose from the column labeled as “bundled and confined.”

Proceed with caution if you use symbols from the IEEE library.  They were not all made correctly; in fact most weren’t.  I tried to get Autodesk to remove that library, but they did not.  It has caused confusion.

Even if the IEEE library symbols had been made correctly, IEEE symbols and tags are intended for circuit board schematics, not industrial control system schematics.  I think it was a mistake to include any IEEE library, since AutoCAD Electrical is not used for circuit board design.  

The tag letters for a diode in the IEEE are CR.  But CR is a control relay in a control schematic based upon the NFPA standard.  The tag letters for a pilot light in IEEE are DS.  In NFPA, those letters are LT.  A DS could be confused as being a Disconnect Switch.  

Furthermore, the JIC library is old and outdated.  I suggest that you use the NFPA library for the North American market.

If a symbol in the IEEE library happens to have the look you need, copy it to the library folder you are using for your project and edit the TAG1 attribute as needed, to match the standard you are designing to. If you think you will need both a vertically-wired version and a horizontally-wired version, be sure to copy both the “V” and “H” versions of the symbol blocks.  

As a bonus, you could add the copied symbol to the icon menu you have assigned to your project, using the Icon Menu Wizard.