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Post 121 of 134

Re: Civil 3D 2017 is not backward compatable.

02-02-2017 01:59 PM in reply to: ChrisRS

I have been using 2017 for weeks now.  I have yet to find one upgrade in the new version that is going to make me more effective or profitable at my job.  I can however already see thousands of dollars of lost production because of dealing with this update and non-compatibility.  Not to mention the headache of dealing with other consultants still on the old version.  We do not work within a bubble of one office or company. 

 

I used land Desktop 2009 from when it came out until switching to C3D in 2016 to not deal with update issues.  I didn't have an issue for the better part of a decade.  AutoCAD is now forcing everyone into subscription based licenses and mandatory upgrades in  a money grab.  I hope the company realizes these updates anger your customers.  I'm just trying to make noise so that they can think more about this when they try to pull this idiocy in the future. 

 

Autodesk needs to spend 5 years developing and testing a piece of software and get it bulletproof.  Then release it, and don't release a major update for another 5-10 years until they have something game-changing.  The yearly updates are infuriating. 

 

Mark G

Post 122 of 134

Re: Civil 3D 2017 is not backward compatable.

02-02-2017 02:19 PM in reply to: rkmcswain

rkmcswain wrote:
@jmayo and others.... don't get me wrong. I don't like it either. We've got 200+ C3D users here all on 2014 or 2017 or 2014+2017 and no end in sight.

And guess what? 2018 will probably be coming out in the next few months, and who knows if the format will be different again?

It's a huge mess, but what are you going to do? Switch to *****CAD ? No.

Autodesk knows this, so all of this is of little concern to them unfortunately.

They make money by renting new seats, not by making our life comfortable. It's easier to rent new seats when you have flashy new features, which in turn means you need new formats.


The toughest part to swallow is the lack of being able to switch between versions (2013-2016) which I feel in the past few years our local industry in the northwest as well as the rest of the country have gotten used and have become a integral part of the work flow.

 

Losing this flexibility is the root of most peoples frustrations as well as the lack of Autodesk to recognize the importance of this flexilbilty.

 

I mentioned before most of us using civil 3d in the northwest region are sticking w/ c3d 2016 for the time being and it maybe years before we jump to a newer version (2017 and beyond) since we depend on this flexibility for work flow within the office as well as out of the office when working w/ clients and other consultants. 

 

I have 2017 on my machine and i'll only use it to convert pdf's to cadd, other than that the functionality is the same. We've tested a few project in 2017 and have since painfully saved them back or redid them in 2016 since it caused more trouble than it was worth at this point in time. Other than the lack of flexibility w/ the older formats its a great product and I look forward to using it the future!

 

 

 

 

Highlighted
Post 123 of 134

Re: Civil 3D 2017 is not backward compatable.

02-02-2017 02:32 PM in reply to: MGrof

A little history. . .

  • In order to get a Civil 3D 2007 drawing back to 2006 you had to export to AutoCAD and export to Land XML.  In 2006 you had to import the AutoCAD file and import the Land XML and then you can continue working.  
  • Same goes for 2008 to 2007
  • Same goes for 2009 to 2008
  • Same goes for 2010 to 2009
  • Same goes for 2011 to 2010
  • Same goes for 2012 to 2011
  • Same goes for 2013 ti 2012
  • From 2013 to 2016 the Civil 3D data had no major updates, therefore there was very little need to convert using the export methods described in the previous posts.  
  • In 2017, after listening to some requests on updating specific content, Autodesk upgraded the Civil 3D data.  Now we're back to the export methods.  

None of this is new.  

 

This is what the help files have stated for a years now:

Help2017.png

 

Help2016.png

 

Help2015.png

 

And it goes on and on back to the beginning.  

 

I have explained to many of my clients and it is understood that if you begin a project in 2017 it stays in 2017.  If you want to migrate a project to 2017 it then remains in 2017.  I also explained this to them with every previous release of the software.  

 

And you did have issues with Land Desktop.  You couldn't just save a 2009 file back to 2004.  You had to SAVEAS and convert it.  But the data remained external in the project file in Land Desktop and you were only reading from it.  The data is in the Civil 3D file and therefore must be converted (with the export of the drawing and the Land XML).  If all this is bothering people, then we should all fight to go back to the days of creating the external project files.  I don't think so.  Smiley Wink

Jason Porter
ASTI Civil Solutions Technical Advisor
www.asti.com
Post 124 of 134

Re: Civil 3D 2017 is not backward compatable.

02-02-2017 02:34 PM in reply to: MGrof

MGrof wrote:

I have been using 2017 for weeks now.  I have yet to find one upgrade in the new version that is going to make me more effective or profitable at my job.  I can however already see thousands of dollars of lost production because of dealing with this update and non-compatibility.  Not to mention the headache of dealing with other consultants still on the old version.  We do not work within a bubble of one office or company. 

 

I used land Desktop 2009 from when it came out until switching to C3D in 2016 to not deal with update issues.  I didn't have an issue for the better part of a decade.  AutoCAD is now forcing everyone into subscription based licenses and mandatory upgrades in  a money grab.  I hope the company realizes these updates anger your customers.  I'm just trying to make noise so that they can think more about this when they try to pull this idiocy in the future. 

 

Autodesk needs to spend 5 years developing and testing a piece of software and get it bulletproof.  Then release it, and don't release a major update for another 5-10 years until they have something game-changing.  The yearly updates are infuriating. 

 

Mark G

We made the jump then

We also used Land Desktop/Autocad but held to the 2007 version till 2013 came out. We made the jump then (6 years on 2007). Now we exclusivley use civil3d for design and drafting.  I feel we'll do the same waiting game thing for us to switched 2017+ version. I feel the same as you that the new version doesn't have any functionality that warrants us to upgrade 2017+. We because very reliant on the flexibility of the 2013-16 versions and that overrides any upgrades to 2017+ at this time. 

 

 

Post 125 of 134

Re: Civil 3D 2017 is not backward compatable.

02-02-2017 03:00 PM in reply to: MGrof
MGrof wrote:

AutoCAD is now forcing everyone into subscription based licenses and mandatory upgrades in  a money grab.  I hope the company realizes these updates anger your customers.  I'm just trying to make noise so that they can think more about this when they try to pull this idiocy in the future. 

Autodesk needs to spend 5 years developing and testing a piece of software and get it bulletproof.  Then release it, and don't release a major update for another 5-10 years until they have something game-changing.  The yearly updates are infuriating. 

If you have a perpetual license, you do not have to start renting today. I suspect we will all get there soon, but not today.

Once again, they don't have to care about existing customers nearly as much as they do about acquiring NEW customers. Once you're in, you're in. They got you. Do you know anyone dumping AutoCAD for M!cr0st@t!0n (or fill in the blank with other competitors) ? Maybe one person, but what about corporations of 100, 500, 1000, 5000 or more users? It's not happening.

They are no longer going to work on a version for 5 years before releasing it. Those days are history. If anything, it's moving more towards SAAS, where you'll use whatever they allow you to use. Do you think the licensing aspect is all they are going to use the "always on" connectivity for, down the line?

Obviously, these are just my opinions. I have no insider insight. Just observations based on the past.

 


R.K. McSwain     | CADpanacea | twitter | My Screencasts
Post 126 of 134

Re: Civil 3D 2017 is not backward compatable.

02-03-2017 08:19 AM in reply to: MGrof

MGrof wrote:

 

Autodesk needs to spend 5 years developing and testing a piece of software and get it bulletproof.  Then release it, and don't release a major update for another 5-10 years until they have something game-changing.  The yearly updates are infuriating. 


This goes back to an old argument. When they started the first version of Subscription (VIP) you would sometimes not get a version upgrade for 3 years. Those paying the yearly fee started complaining about paying yearly and not getting anything for 3 years. So they went to yearly releases. I could see many complaints about having to wait 5 years while paying yearly. Also there are people waiting for new features that may not want to wait for 5 years to see them.

 

There are arguments on both sides. But whichever way it's done there will be a group that will be unhappy about it.



Allen Jessup
Engineering Specialist / CAD Manager

Post 127 of 134

Re: Civil 3D 2017 is not backward compatable.

02-07-2017 10:36 AM in reply to: dsimeone

Hi Dave, thanks for your post about this. I'm interested in the pressure content you mention, specifically the Pressure Network Catalog database file for Steel pipe "Imperial_AWWA_Steel.SQLite".

 

My company has an Enterprise License for C3D. Is the download available for R2016 subscribers as of yet... or is it something you can simply email to me? I have an immediate project need for this.

 

Thanks,

Steve

 

Steve Anderson

steven_anderson@golder.com

941-228-7818 cell

 

 

dsimeone wrote:

Few topics i'll try to respond to...

 

  1. Civil 3D Object Format - Yes, we made the hard decision to update our objects for Release 2017. This enabled us to properly implement the improvements in the initial release AND also provide us a platform for some things that we're hoping to deliver during the year.
  2. Pressure content - We intend on delivering the pressure content as a unique doanload for R2016 subscribers. Still working out the logistics but it'll be raw content that you import into Civil 3D 2016
  3. We're still actively developing Kameleon. The long term vision is that this becomes a general content creation environment... For C3D users, i see it as the future solution for creation of both gravity and pressure content. For now, Kameleon will remain on Labs so please continue to stay involved with that project.

Thanks

Dave Simeone

Senior Product Manager - AutoCAD Civil 3D


 

Post 128 of 134

Re: Civil 3D 2017 is not backward compatable.

02-28-2017 10:55 AM in reply to: steven_anderson

Here's an interesting twist to this backward compatibility issue.

I received two drawings in 2017 format.

One had C3D content, the other one did not.

Even with the one with just vanilla AutoCAD objects, I had to insert it as a block into a blank 2016 C3D drawing in order to dumb it down.

I couldn't just Export to CAD and get it to dumb down. It refused to work.

Mike Porter
www.ppeng.com
Civil3D 2016 SP2
Win 7 Professional - 64-bit
HP Z230
Xeon 3.20Ghz
32GB of RAM
Nvidia GeForce GTX 760
Post 129 of 134

Re: Civil 3D 2017 is not backward compatable.

02-28-2017 11:04 AM in reply to: mikepo

Civil 3D content is not always visible. If the second drawing was started with a Civil 3D template the there may be a lot of Civil objects that aren't visible. The drawing would have had to be started in plain AutoCAD with an AutoCAD Template to avoid having anything Civil in it.



Allen Jessup
Engineering Specialist / CAD Manager

Post 130 of 134

Re: Civil 3D 2017 is not backward compatable.

02-28-2017 11:09 AM in reply to: AllenJessup

You're probably right. I forgot about that.

Oh well. Three hours later, I have both drawings converted. sigh!

I guess I better get on the upgrade train fast.

Mike Porter
www.ppeng.com
Civil3D 2016 SP2
Win 7 Professional - 64-bit
HP Z230
Xeon 3.20Ghz
32GB of RAM
Nvidia GeForce GTX 760
Post 131 of 134

Re: Civil 3D 2017 is not backward compatable.

03-08-2017 10:48 AM in reply to: ChrisRS

I've spent the last 2-3 hours reading through this and trying to wrap my head around a solution or workaround.

The one thing that comes to mind is "Does anyone get any billable production work done anymore!"  LOL

It seems I spend most my time trying to fix something or figure out a workaround.

We haven't even switched to 2017 and we're dealing with issue getting drawings from clients and outside sources.

It will be even worse when we switch (very soon now) and have to supply drawings to our downstream sources.

I guess it's all job security, right?

Mike Porter
www.ppeng.com
Civil3D 2016 SP2
Win 7 Professional - 64-bit
HP Z230
Xeon 3.20Ghz
32GB of RAM
Nvidia GeForce GTX 760
Post 132 of 134

Re: Civil 3D 2017 is not backward compatable.

03-08-2017 11:53 AM in reply to: ChrisRS

I did some testing here so I can be prepared as I know this issue is going to pop up, and I'm getting a result I don't think was mentioned previously.

When I "Export C3D Drawing", and then open that drawing in 2016, it opens with no proxy objects, but I get the message below.2017-03-08_1119.png

 

If all I need are vanilla CAD objects, I know instead of opening the exported drawing, I can insert it as a block into a blank drawing, and I'm good to go.

 

IF God forbid, by some chance, I need the C3D data, before I import the XML file as discussed previously, I would need to manually find and delete all the dumbed down C3D objects that were converted to line work in the export process.

 

I know this is a lot of discussion and effort for something we shouldn't be doing anyway, but I thought I would share my testing experience for awareness purposes.

 

 

Mike Porter
www.ppeng.com
Civil3D 2016 SP2
Win 7 Professional - 64-bit
HP Z230
Xeon 3.20Ghz
32GB of RAM
Nvidia GeForce GTX 760
Post 133 of 134

Re: Civil 3D 2017 is not backward compatable.

03-10-2017 09:59 AM in reply to: mikepo

Somewhere I read that running the "Export Civil 3D Drawing" routine TWO times will beat it into submission, and ultimately into 2016 "format" :)  And it seems to work...  

 

In 2017, run the 'Export Civil 3D Drawing' routine.  Open the new exported drawing in 2016.  Run it again.  Open the new new exported file. Rebuild it.  Import styles & settings or thaw/turn on all layers and copy-paste into a fresh company template.  Import LandXML.  Stand on head, kiss elbow.  Hope the inter in your office doesn't open the exported file in 2017 and save it...

 

This method works great for a single base drawing, but if you need to convert an entire sheet set from 2016 to 2017 I say you'd have better luck finding a new career :)

 

Alrighty folks, the word for the day is: W-O-R-K-A-R-O-U-N-D.

 

Autodesk: where's my free toaster?

 

And this nonsense of our referring to 2016 and 2017 'format' drawings makes me ill.  They're both using a 2013 format, right?  And that just doesn't make sense based on the historical 3-year format upgrade per: https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/autocad/troubleshooting/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles/AutoCA...

 

I like your question of "does anyone get any billable production work done anymore?"  Let's exhume board drafting!

 

Good luck everyone, and happy CADDing

Post 134 of 134

Re: Civil 3D 2017 is not backward compatable.

03-11-2017 07:21 AM in reply to: ChrisRS
Good post on the workaround.
BTW AutoCAD drawing format and Civil 3D object format are two different things.


Allen Jessup
Engineering Specialist / CAD Manager

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