PM for Structural Steel Introduction + Steel Detailing Roadmap

[piotr_pysz]

Hello Everyone!  

I would like to use the opportunity to introduce myself and drop some important notes and announcements. 

My name is Piotr Pysz and I recently joined Autodesk as a Product Manager for Steel Structures.  

I graduated as a Structural Engineer from Cracow University of Technology. For the first 4 years of my career, I worked in a small Structural Engineering office. Then I moved to a big Steel Detailing company based in the US where I spent the last 9 years. I went through all the steps starting as a draftsman editing shop and part drawings, then moved to the modeling and connecting department, became a checker after a few years, and finally a team leader responsible for the international team of Steel Detailers. 

During my Steel Detailing career, I had the opportunity to work on some major development projects like Mercedes Benz Stadium, Orange County Museum of Arts, or Norwegian Cruise Terminal. 

You can find me on LinkedIn if you want to connect!  

As you know In March last year, we announced that we are investing in BIM-centric steel detailing workflow in Revit with the intention to connect design and detailing. To accelerate this plan, we have decided to transition Advance Steel into Maintenance mode (blog post).  

We’ve promised to be transparent about our plans and to come back with an updated roadmap for Steel Detailing.  

I know that some of you have already seen the new version >> Revit – Structure Roadmap, however, I felt like communicating this directly here is the right thing to do. 

Some of you already gave us very constructive feedback – thank you very much for that!  
 
We have heard a lot of misconceptions about what’s going to happen next to Advance Steel due to the above investments in Revit. I wanted to address some of the main concerns here and give you more insights into the Development process. 

What does it mean that Advance Steel is in maintenance mode? 

It means that we are providing customer support for the product, porting it to the new versions of AutoCAD, fixing major bugs, and providing all the functionalities that it has today. It also means that we are not developing new features or functionalities for Advance Steel. 

What is the future of Advance Steel? 
We understand the critical role that Advance Steel plays in your workflow and business. Advance Steel continues to be available in our portfolio with its existing value bringing its specialization in Steel Detailing and Fabrication to the collection. 

What is the timeframe for developing Revit as a fully functional steel detailing software? 
Developing Revit as a fully functional steel detailing software is a multi-year endeavor. There are fundamental capabilities that any Steel Detailing software should possess, such as the automated creation of assemblies when you weld or bolt elements together, the automatic numbering of identical parts, and the ability to automatically generate fabrication drawings or NC files. These are some of the foundational functionalities that Revit is currently missing. 

Your input as a community has been invaluable in helping us identify which tools and capabilities are most important to you as we continue to develop and improve our solutions. We understand the importance of having tools that are reliable, intuitive, easy to use, and customizable. Tools that enhance productivity, streamline collaboration, and automate repetitive tasks.   

We appreciate your patience and understanding as we look to enhance solutions with this in mind and work towards a BIM-centric Steel Detailing tool. 

I am a Steel Detailer, and I do not care about BIM. All I need is reliable and robust Steel Detailing software 

As a Steel Detailer myself, I completely understand where this is coming from. The priority is always to have robust and reliable software that enables us to carry out work efficiently. Discussions about BIM and data exchange with Engineers can seem academic without the right tools in place. 

That said, our strategy is two-pronged. Our primary focus is on incorporating the Steel Detailing capabilities from Advance Steel into Revit. Simultaneously, we're dedicated to addressing the challenges and limitations that you've so effectively communicated to us via the Ideas Station. 

This approach helps ensure that we're not just bringing in new features, but also making necessary improvements to the existing system. Our goal is to offer you a comprehensive tool that meets your Steel Detailing needs while also providing the added benefits of BIM integration. 

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Finally, we have decided to make some changes to the configuration of the Advance Steel category on the Community Forums. We have made the decision to archive both the Advance Steel Ideas and Advance Steel Customization boards.   

Why: 

Advance Steel Ideas: We do not want to set false expectations around the development of Advance Steel.  

Advance Steel Customization: Following an audit of the board, it does not meet the criteria for success, and coupled with the community also using the Advance Steel Forum for customization relation topics, we have decided to move the content from this board to the Advance Steel Forum.  

How: 

The Advance Steel Ideas & Advance Steel Customization board will change to read-only on March 29, 2024, and then it will be archived.

Will archiving delete the thread? 

No, Archiving moves the thread from the affected board to a forum archive. 

Will this content be linked to the thread once archived? 

As new community content is created, archived content will be cross-linked to ensure the validity and consistency of the archived content. E.g., If an old link to an archived forum topic is selected, this link will redirect to the new piece of community-generated content. 

[EricOlson1973]

That’s exactly it. I’ve used Revit on a few projects. I had to rely heavily on a veteran user, and it was apparent that it would take years to get up to his level of skill, and even he didn’t have total control over its wonky structural features.

[bigcarl5000kg]

implementation procedure of selected technologies from other SW = searching, seek and destroy: https://www.cadnauseam.com/autodesk-graveyard/

[EricOlson1973]

That is astounding.  I expect things to be tried and abandoned, but it's like they throw everything at the wall to see what sticks.  Most of it clearly doesn't.

I don't expect Revit to go away in the foreseeable future, but one would be forgiven to be leery of embracing any unfamiliar Autodesk software for fear of it becoming obsolete.

[bigcarl5000kg]

Is it possible that we don't get anything innovative, no fixed bugs for the licenses we paid for? Doesn't it look like some startup that serves to cover the development of a completely different "product"?  Isn't that called embezzlement in the legal world? Lots of things to think about...

[FCort]

Many customers already left Autodesk for SDS2, Bocad, Tekla.  It's sad to let Advance-Steel disappear; it has a lot to offer.

[Julio_Soto]

it feels like it was a really poor decision to let customers just walk.  Our office (25 users) is looking for alternatives to Advance Steel for the future. We do not have any faith that AutoDesk will get this right in Revit. 

[EricOlson1973]

Even if they did get it right in Revit (which I doubt), it would take years to get there.  The current state of Revit structural is half-baked at best, and they have nothing but the package they mothballed to fill the long gap.  They have no respect for their customers.

[vuongbui.nuce]

I don’t think they’ll ever fully integrate steel into Revit, especially since they announced the maintenance mode for Advance Steel. Just look at what they've done with Revit since then. I closely reviewed the Revit 2025 update, and all they've changed is bring piece marks from  'Advance Steel' to 'Revit'. You still can’t create a complete model in Revit, let alone prepare it for fabrication. It's hard to leave behind what Advance Steel had, but I’ve seen many experts move away from it already. This is serious; we can’t keep paying for software stuck in maintenance mode.

[EricOlson1973]

It should be a one-time cost, at best.

[Lewk_SGS]

Should be, but in the age of subscription services where companies make a killing I doubt that'll happen. In today's world it's all about spending thousands on a product only for you to never actually own it.

[ZHUKOV_ING]

I think that you are wrong about Revit Steel... Watching how Revit is developed in the past 10+ years i think that steel modeling and detailing in Revit will be the next big thing, i have big expectations. I was also against steel in Revit , just loved working with AdvanceSTEEL and i still do...

p.s in the past few months i had one big project in TEKLA (fabricator asked me to help) so after 10 years i worked in Tekla eviroment and what can say, my opinion about Tekla is not changed, yes Tekla have good 3d enviroment (for performance but Autocad 2025 and new Revit accelerated graphics will cancel this advantage) , not so user friendly macros and awful 2d enviroment (limitations from Autocad platform in 2d are now overcome in Revit), the only options that gives upper hand against AS is CLONE and what can i say about price. 

[jess_neal]

There is absolutely no way Revit anything will be as fast, efficient and customizable as something Autocad based. This move will force a lot of users to jump ship to something else.

[FCort]

Advance Steel has improved significantly under Graitec's development. I wish they could buy it back.

[EricOlson1973]

Even if Revit catches up (I'm not holding my breath), the larger point is that it is devastating to companies to have to embrace a software that is completely different from the ground up.  Expert CAD-based detailers will become floundering amateurs in the Revit environment, and it takes a long time to learn its nuances and hidden secrets.  Even having a Revit expert on staff to help out does not eliminate years of being less efficient.  It's crazy to expect companies to switch products.

[vuongbui.nuce]

section in advance steel not good its depend on main view, so if you want chage rear and front view. my way is make by camera

[garyandsherry99]

so should we dump, advanced steel altogether, and move over to Tekla.  Tekla seems to be the most used Outside of the more expensive SDS two. Tekla is a big jump in price from advanced steel though. as an independent freelance detailer. My small amount of customers does not support the price of Tekla. 

[vuongbui.nuce]

after 1 year, what do you do with Revit? Can we make FAB drawing steel on revit? @piotr_pysz 

[piotr_pysz]

Hi, @vuongbui.nuce  et all.

Short answer:
As I wrote in the initial post - turning Revit into a fully functional steel detailing software that can replace Advance Steel and compete in the market is a multi-year process. We did a lot of foundational development work in 2024 that will enable us to work on the fabrication drawings project. 

To answer your question directly - the automatic generation of shop drawings in Revit is not possible, yet. 

Long answer:

Here is what we worked on in 2024:

1. Porting Advance Steel to .NET8 and the latest version of the AutoCAD platform.

That was a lot of challenging work for the Dev Team, however, it allowed us to place Advance Steel on the modern platform and greatly enhance the performance of opening models, navigation and drawings generation.

More details in my LinkedIn post

2. Use Advance Steel part & assembly marks in Revit. 

Long-standing feature request to be better connected between design and detailing

Great LinkedIn video post by Tomek

3. Split feature enabled for elements with connections

Due to the limitations of working with fabrication elements in Revit split feature was not available for elements with connections. This is now possible.

4. Break multiple connections

Productivity enhancement that allows users to break multiple standard or custom connections.

Again - nicely explained by Tomek in the LinkedIn video post 

5. Point-to-point modeling workflow

Revit was initially developed to serve Architects and Engineers (Structural & MEP). Typical practice for Structural Engineers is to create a steel model without any connections actually modeled (they only show it as typical details on the sheets). However they still wanted their plan views and elevations views to look nice without elements overlapping and clashing with each other at joints. That's why Revit as a default creates a 'set-back' that pushes the end of an element back to avoid clash. Of course that can be adjusted however that was a manual, one-by-one process. 

Detailers need a different approach. When I was working as a Steel Detailer the first thing that the Fabricator was asking for is - 'When can I get my anchor bolts and Advance Bill of Materials?'

That was the first thing we did - re-created the base model in a detailing software based on the construction documentation from Engineer and Architect and we were generating ABM lists so that fabricator can start reserving and purchasing material for the job.

With this project we have developed a global switch that allows you to decide if you want to have the 'old' behaviour with the setbacks or 'new' more precise centerline-to-centerline behaviour. 

The implications of this project goes beyond what is visible at first glance.

Of course it is a must-have for Detailers.

However we want to encourage Engineers to start working like this because it will allow them to create more accurate design intent models that can be later shared with the Detailers. 

6. Reliable weight & length parameters

Small tweak on how weight and length parameters and presented and calculated, making them more accurate and reliable.

7. Numbering

Rule-based numbering for all Revit elements. Foundational step toward steel detailing in Revit

8. Custom connection enhancements

Productivity enhancements for working with custom connections. You will be able to edit parameters and geometry of sub-components from inside of the editor.

9. Steel family-based design object vs Steel fabrication object compatibility issue

As you know connections in Revit are a direct port of Advance Steel connections. So in order to make the Advance Steel connections work with Revit elements we needed to create an additional 'fabrication layer' which raised a lot of problems and limitations. More about that in the help pages.

The bottom line of this project is to get rid of that limitations and harmonize the experience of working with 'native' Revit elements and 'fabrication' elements.

In 2025 we will be wrapping up the projects that are marked as "In development". Most of them are available for testing in the Preview Release. We will be also looking at Assemblies and how we can marry the current Revit concept of assemblies with the needs of the steel industry.

I also encourage you to watch the AU 2024 Structures Futures Briefing where we were talking about our development priorities and future outlook. Steel part starts at 42min.

And finally - I will be on NASCC conference that takes place in Louisville on April 2-4. 

I hope I can meet some of you in person!

[EricOlson1973]

What can you offer to those who have invested fully in the AutoCAD suite and have never really used Revit?  They would have no standards in place and they would have no skill with the software.  There is training, yes, but I've trained on Revit and attempted to use it based on what I have learned, but the real world project challenges quickly surpass the knowledge gained from training, and we start to flounder while trying to get things to work.  Further, clients are not going to be understanding of the extra time necessary to learn on the fly.  It's great that you're incorporating this functionality into Revit, but letting Advance Steel stagnate is a terrible blow to your clients who depend on that tool.  Switching to Revit will not be an option for many companies.

[Lewk_SGS]

It seems like a lot what is being done in Revit is stuff that Advance Steel can already do. This is will be good for transitioning and is a step in the right direction. I've applied for the Community Testing and hope I'm selected to try the Preview Release. I am (and I think so many others are) still wondering why AutoDesk would rather adapt their flagship software in Revit rather than improve software that's specific to steel and structural fabrication and erection that has an established user base? I feel that question still hasn't been answered.

As far as adapting to a Revit environment - I hope these updates are an indication that transitioning from Advance Steel is a top concern for development. I expect there's going to be a learning curve, and I feel mostly the same way as @EricOlson1973 (many people do) so an answer to our concern should be addressed because clients, project managers, and our bank accounts require us to produce constantly.