Solved! Go to Solution.
You need a set-up from 101 Backsighting 102 Turing to 38, then you should be able to close it.
Rick Jackson
Survey CAD Technician VI
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YOu can enter the az if it's known and yes , you should be settting on 38 and turning back to 102 .
you need the angle and distance to close the traverse.
Send me the FBK file and I will try to work with it for you.
Surveyor Lee
<settting on 38 and turning back to 102 >
38 _is_ 102. They're at the same coordinate, it's just that 38 is a control point (won't get adjusted) like 101.
the [cropped] FBK file isn't very long:
JOB 1036 MON ! DT12-19-2012 TM06:03:11
UNIT USFOOT DMS
EDM OFFSET 0.0000
SCALE FACTOR 1.0000000
HORIZ ANGLE RIGHT
VERT ANGLE ZENITH
NEZ 101 5000.0000 5000.0000 100.0000 "SET X CP"
NEZ 2 4938.9680 4683.7770 104.6000 "MAGNL CP"
NEZ 38 4277.4110 4791.1040 90.6600 "LNT PROD CP"
! OPENED BY VERSION 5.2.0, RANGER3 (RS0EC07210).
! DATE: 12/17/12, TIME: 08:40:50.000
! ACTIVATING TOTAL STATION: TOPCON GPT SERIES MECHANICAL, COM1,1200,EVEN
! TARGET PRISM, HR:1.541 (1.541 + 0.000 OFFSET), PRISM CONST.:0.000MM
STN 101 5.632 "SET X CP"
AZ 101 38 259.04510
BS 38 0.00000
PRISM 5.055
! BS CHECK 101 - 2:ZE91.1922,SD428.72,HD ERR= 106.615751, VD ERR= 90.680095
! BS CIRCLE CHECK : ANGULAR ERR= 0.0001
F1 VA 1002 0.00000 428.720 91.19225 "FD LNT PROD CP"
! DATE: 12/17/12, TIME: 09:00:50.000
! ACTIVATING TOTAL STATION: TOPCON GPT SERIES MECHANICAL, COM1,1200,EVEN
! TARGET PRISM, HR:1.495 (1.495 + 0.000 OFFSET), PRISM CONST.:0.000MM
STN 101 5.632 "SET X CP"
BS 38 0.00000
PRISM 4.905
! BS CHECK 101 - 102:ZE91.1931,SD428.72,HD ERR= -0.000408, VD ERR= -0.017662
! BS CIRCLE CHECK : ANGULAR ERR= 0.0000
! TARGET PRISM, HR:1.541 (1.541 + 0.000 OFFSET), PRISM CONST.:0.000MM
PRISM 5.055
! TARGET PRISM, HR:1.495 (1.495 + 0.000 OFFSET), PRISM CONST.:0.000MM
PRISM 4.905
! TARGET PRISM, HR:1.541 (1.541 + 0.000 OFFSET), PRISM CONST.:0.000MM
PRISM 5.055
! TARGET PRISM, HR:1.495 (1.495 + 0.000 OFFSET), PRISM CONST.:0.000MM
PRISM 4.905
F1 VA 103 271.37565 164.387 85.00455 "SET 60D CP"
! DATE: 12/17/12, TIME: 09:40:50.000
! TARGET PRISM, HR:1.541 (1.541 + 0.000 OFFSET), PRISM CONST.:0.000MM
PRISM 5.055
! TARGET PRISM, HR:1.495 (1.495 + 0.000 OFFSET), PRISM CONST.:0.000MM
PRISM 4.905
! TARGET PRISM, HR:1.541 (1.541 + 0.000 OFFSET), PRISM CONST.:0.000MM
PRISM 5.055
! TARGET PRISM, HR:1.495 (1.495 + 0.000 OFFSET), PRISM CONST.:0.000MM
PRISM 4.905
F1 VA 106 187.26345 242.955 89.05065 "FD MAGNL CP"
STN 106 5.580 "FD MAGNL CP"
BS 101 0.00000
PRISM 5.250
! BS CHECK 106 - 101:ZE91.1019,SD242.96,HD ERR= -0.014843, VD ERR= -0.032228
! BS CIRCLE CHECK : ANGULAR ERR= 0.0000
F1 VA 366 0.00000 242.960 91.10125 "BSCK A106"
! DATE: 12/19/12, TIME: 13:33:24.000
! TARGET PRISM, HR:1.495 (1.495 + 0.000 OFFSET), PRISM CONST.:0.000MM
PRISM 4.905
! TARGET PRISM, HR:1.600 (1.600 + 0.000 OFFSET), PRISM CONST.:0.000MM
PRISM 5.250
! TARGET PRISM, HR:1.495 (1.495 + 0.000 OFFSET), PRISM CONST.:0.000MM
PRISM 4.905
! TARGET PRISM, HR:1.600 (1.600 + 0.000 OFFSET), PRISM CONST.:0.000MM
PRISM 5.250
! TARGET PRISM, HR:1.495 (1.495 + 0.000 OFFSET), PRISM CONST.:0.000MM
PRISM 4.905
F1 VA 113 263.31585 322.315 87.27320 "FD 4PMMH CP"
STN 113 5.560 "FD 4PMMH CP"
BS 106 0.00000
PRISM 5.160
! BS CHECK 113 - 106:ZE92.4405,SD322.36,HD ERR= -0.005178, VD ERR= -0.015144
! BS CIRCLE CHECK : ANGULAR ERR= 0.0000
! BS CHECK 113 - 106:ZE92.4404,SD322.365,HD ERR= -0.00011, VD ERR= -0.013821
! BS CIRCLE CHECK : ANGULAR ERR= 0.0000
F1 VA 367 0.00005 322.365 92.43575 "BSCK A113"
! TARGET PRISM, HR:1.495 (1.495 + 0.000 OFFSET), PRISM CONST.:0.000MM
PRISM 4.905
F1 VA 116 72.23330 40.355 90.51430 "FD PSPKTC"
F1 VA 117 153.18580 36.180 89.04070 "FD LNTTC"
! DATE: 12/19/12, TIME: 14:03:27.000
F1 VA 118 252.24340 40.720 89.49200 "FD LNTTC"
F1 VA 119 333.19190 36.480 92.56290 "FD LNTTC"
! TARGET PRISM, HR:1.573 (1.573 + 0.000 OFFSET), PRISM CONST.:0.000MM
PRISM 5.160
! TARGET PRISM, HR:1.495 (1.495 + 0.000 OFFSET), PRISM CONST.:0.000MM
PRISM 4.905
! TARGET PRISM, HR:1.573 (1.573 + 0.000 OFFSET), PRISM CONST.:0.000MM
PRISM 5.160
! TARGET PRISM, HR:1.495 (1.495 + 0.000 OFFSET), PRISM CONST.:0.000MM
PRISM 4.905
F1 VA 120 269.59270 286.777 89.56535 "FD PKNL CP"
! DATE: 12/19/12, TIME: 14:30:50.000
! ACTIVATING TOTAL STATION: TOPCON GPT SERIES MECHANICAL, COM1,1200,EVEN
! TARGET PRISM, HR:1.576 (1.576 + 0.000 OFFSET), PRISM CONST.:0.000MM
STN 120 5.567 "FD PKNL CP"
BS 113 0.00000
PRISM 5.170
! BS CHECK 120 - 113:ZE90.1551,SD286.775,HD ERR= -0.005431, VD ERR= -0.010896
! BS CIRCLE CHECK : ANGULAR ERR= 0.0000
F1 VA 368 0.00000 286.770 90.15435 "BSCK A120"
! TARGET PRISM, HR:1.495 (1.495 + 0.000 OFFSET), PRISM CONST.:0.000MM
PRISM 4.905
! TARGET PRISM, HR:1.576 (1.576 + 0.000 OFFSET), PRISM CONST.:0.000MM
PRISM 5.170
! TARGET PRISM, HR:1.495 (1.495 + 0.000 OFFSET), PRISM CONST.:0.000MM
PRISM 4.905
! TARGET PRISM, HR:1.576 (1.576 + 0.000 OFFSET), PRISM CONST.:0.000MM
PRISM 5.170
! TARGET PRISM, HR:1.495 (1.495 + 0.000 OFFSET), PRISM CONST.:0.000MM
PRISM 4.905
F1 VA 121 179.59575 383.587 92.44030 "FD 4PMMH CP2"
! ACTIVATING TOTAL STATION: TOPCON GPT SERIES MECHANICAL, COM1,1200,EVEN
! TARGET PRISM, HR:1.524 (1.524 + 0.000 OFFSET), PRISM CONST.:0.000MM
STN 121 5.532 "FD 4PMMH CP2"
BS 120 0.00000
PRISM 5.000
! BS CHECK 121 - 120:ZE87.2643,SD383.54,HD ERR= 0.007975, VD ERR= -0.008194
! BS CIRCLE CHECK : ANGULAR ERR= 0.0000
F1 VA 122 0.00000 383.535 87.26405 "BSCK A121"
! DATE: 12/19/12, TIME: 14:58:19.000
! TARGET PRISM, HR:1.495 (1.495 + 0.000 OFFSET), PRISM CONST.:0.000MM
PRISM 4.905
! TARGET PRISM, HR:1.524 (1.524 + 0.000 OFFSET), PRISM CONST.:0.000MM
PRISM 5.000
! TARGET PRISM, HR:1.495 (1.495 + 0.000 OFFSET), PRISM CONST.:0.000MM
PRISM 4.905
! TARGET PRISM, HR:1.524 (1.524 + 0.000 OFFSET), PRISM CONST.:0.000MM
PRISM 5.000
! TARGET PRISM, HR:1.495 (1.495 + 0.000 OFFSET), PRISM CONST.:0.000MM
PRISM 4.905
F1 VA 102 270.00195 342.358 92.08555 "FD LNTTC PROD CP"
STN 102 5.490 "FD LNT PROD CP"
BS 121 0.00000
PRISM 4.870
! BS CHECK 102 - 101:ZE88.5005,SD428.715,HD ERR= 0.020611, VD ERR= 0.012632
! BS CIRCLE CHECK : ANGULAR ERR= 0.0000
! TARGET PRISM, HR:1.486 (1.486 + 0.000 OFFSET), PRISM CONST.:0.000MM
PRISM 4.875
! TARGET PRISM, HR:1.484 (1.484 + 0.000 OFFSET), PRISM CONST.:0.000MM
PRISM 4.870
! TARGET PRISM, HR:1.486 (1.486 + 0.000 OFFSET), PRISM CONST.:0.000MM
PRISM 4.875
! TARGET PRISM, HR:1.484 (1.484 + 0.000 OFFSET), PRISM CONST.:0.000MM
PRISM 4.870
F1 VA 101 269.01210 428.712 88.50010 "BSCK A102"
! DATE: 12/17/12, TIME: 13:51:19.000
! TARGET PRISM, HR:1.495 (1.495 + 0.000 OFFSET), PRISM CONST.:0.000MM
PRISM 4.905
! TARGET PRISM, HR:1.486 (1.486 + 0.000 OFFSET), PRISM CONST.:0.000MM
PRISM 4.875
! TARGET PRISM, HR:1.495 (1.495 + 0.000 OFFSET), PRISM CONST.:0.000MM
PRISM 4.905
! TARGET PRISM, HR:1.486 (1.486 + 0.000 OFFSET), PRISM CONST.:0.000MM
PRISM 4.875
! TARGET PRISM, HR:1.495 (1.495 + 0.000 OFFSET), PRISM CONST.:0.000MM
PRISM 4.905
F1 VA 110 173.42390 373.490 91.18165 "FD BM1401871 CP"
! TARGET PRISM, HR:1.486 (1.486 + 0.000 OFFSET), PRISM CONST.:0.000MM
STN 102 5.490 "FD LNT PROD CP"
BS 101 0.00000
PRISM 4.875
! TARGET PRISM, HR:1.495 (1.495 + 0.000 OFFSET), PRISM CONST.:0.000MM
PRISM 4.905
! TARGET PRISM, HR:1.486 (1.486 + 0.000 OFFSET), PRISM CONST.:0.000MM
PRISM 4.875
! TARGET PRISM, HR:1.495 (1.495 + 0.000 OFFSET), PRISM CONST.:0.000MM
PRISM 4.905
F1 VA 111 90.58390 342.308 88.03170 "FD 4PMMH CP"
! ACTIVATING TOTAL STATION: TOPCON GPT SERIES MECHANICAL, COM1,1200,EVEN
! TARGET PRISM, HR:1.591 (1.591 + 0.000 OFFSET), PRISM CONST.:0.000MM
I did finally get a solution, using the following:
Initial Station: 101
Initial Backsight: 38
Stations: 106,113,120,121,102
Final Foresight: 101
However, I don't see some of the redundant shots in the .LSI file, probably because we can't use the same point numbers in the data collector file:
! Least Squares Input File
! Generated By Survey
!
! Point Northing Easting Elevation
NEZ 38 4277.411000 4791.104000 90.660000
NEZ 101 5000.000000 5000.000000 100.000000
?NEZ 106 5222.663432 5097.127365 104.607356
?NEZ 113 5127.980464 5404.889410 119.576089
?NEZ 120 4853.871179 5320.602915 120.491150
?NEZ 121 4487.644441 5207.991065 102.858636
?NEZ 102 4588.228149 4880.993018 90.651677
!
! From At To Angle Distance
! Point Point Point Angle Distance Std Error Std Error
AZ 101 38 196.07273 0.00100
SD 121 102 342.335 0.007
VA 121 102 92.02380 0.00056
A 120 121 102 270.00195 0.00064
SD 101 106 242.968 0.007
VA 101 106 88.54494 0.00055
A 38 101 106 187.26345 0.00070
SD 102 101 428.725 0.007
VA 102 101 88.45028 0.00036
A 121 102 101 269.01210 0.00061
SD 120 121 383.556 0.007
VA 120 121 92.38074 0.00060
A 113 120 121 179.59575 0.00082
SD 113 120 286.778 0.007
VA 113 120 89.49024 0.00038
A 106 113 120 269.59270 0.00075
SD 106 113 322.346 0.007
VA 106 113 87.20205 0.00071
A 101 106 113 263.31585 0.00084
Can I pad them into this input file in the above format, changing the point numbers of the redundant shots and then click 'Process Input File' and have it apply least squares to _all_ my observations?
Yes, you should change the redundant point numbers to the correct point number and re-run the file.
If you have multiple points, you may be able to change them in the raw file and get it to recognize it. (save the original raw file though). And to do the least squares adjustment, you will need to create an input file.
It should work fine, except you do not have a definite tie to point 38, your original control point.
Surveyor Lee
Thanks for replying and apologies for my delay in responding - I've been on vacation. (Woo Hoo!)
<It should work fine, except you do not have a definite tie to point 38, your original control point.>
Then I'm still missing something fundamental. Point 38 is a _copy_ of point 102. It is only there because I need a backsight direction to the leg of the control traverse between point 101 and point 102 or the routine throws an error. I don't want to use 102 as an initial control point because my understanding is that control points don't get adjusted, and 102 is part of my control traverse loop. I need it to be adjusted with all the other control traverse points.
Let me digress a little to be sure I understand this.
From point 38 (102) you have a traverse and you need it adjusted.
Based on the cropped portion of the field book you posted, you have a fixed azimuth between 38 and 101 and fixed coordinates. Have you performed a manual inverse to be sure the coordinates will match the azimuth. If not, that could be the cause of the trouble.
The entry in the top of the field book you posted reads:
HORIZ ANGLE RIGHT
VERT ANGLE ZENITH
NEZ 101 5000.0000 5000.0000 100.0000 "SET X CP"
NEZ 2 4938.9680 4683.7770 104.6000 "MAGNL CP"
NEZ 38 4277.4110 4791.1040 90.6600 "LNT PROD CP"
! OPENED BY VERSION 5.2.0, RANGER3 (RS0EC07210).
! DATE: 12/17/12, TIME: 08:40:50.000
! ACTIVATING TOTAL STATION: TOPCON GPT SERIES MECHANICAL, COM1,1200,EVEN
! TARGET PRISM, HR:1.541 (1.541 + 0.000 OFFSET), PRISM CONST.:0.000MM
STN 101 5.632 "SET X CP"
AZ 101 38 259.04510
The last line "AZ 101 38 259.04510" is fixing the azimuth between 38 and 101 to the az.
THe "nez" fixes the coordinates. on the points.
IF you want to hold th az between 38 and 101, you can change all of the calls for 102 to 38. Since 38 is a know points, leave the NEZ on it as it is.
on the "NEZ 101......", change to ?NEZ
Leave the Az 101 38...., but you may want to change it by 180 degrees and make it AZ 38 101, since you are holding 38 fixed. This will hold the azimuth but let 102 move in distance from 38.
From looking at the least squares input file pt 38 and 102 are not the same
Least Squares Input File
! Generated By Survey
!
! Point Northing Easting Elevation
NEZ 38 4277.411000 4791.104000 90.660000
NEZ 101 5000.000000 5000.000000 100.000000
?NEZ 106 5222.663432 5097.127365 104.607356
?NEZ 113 5127.980464 5404.889410 119.576089
?NEZ 120 4853.871179 5320.602915 120.491150
?NEZ 121 4487.644441 5207.991065 102.858636
?NEZ 102 4588.228149 4880.993018 90.651677
!
! From At To Angle Distance
! Point Point Point Angle Distance Std Error Std Error
AZ 101 38 196.07273 0.00100
As you can see, the preliminary coordinates on 102 are quite different than 38.
Also the az 101 to 38 is quite different too.
These two issues have to be resolved first. When they are resolved, most of the rest of the traverse will fall into place.
Surveyor Lee
<looking at the least squares input file pt 38 and 102 are not the same>
You're absolutely right -- I completely ignored the azimuth between them. I've gotten in a bad habit from programming a similar routine (minus the least squares) that derives the azimuth by inversing between the coordinate pairs coded to the point numbers.
I'll fix that, and then I need to reformat, re-point-number and insert all my redundant shots into the least squares input file and re-run it.
Thanks for your help!
What kind of raw file data are you using? It should convert all of the data to the fbk file, and incude your redundant data and side shots, or are you doing a manual entry?
Surveyor Lee
We're using Survey Pro 5.2 on Spectra Precision Ranger data collectors; it's the latest iteration of TDS's Survey Pro.
The redundant data consists of (doubled) side-shots to the back sight from every occupied point. Shots must be recorded with unique point numbers, so to have the backsight shots included in the adjustment (I assume) we have to renumber them to correspond to the original point numbers of the back-sighted points.
Of course the horizontal angle to the backsight is always zero, I only need the slope distance and zenith angle from each backsight shot.
Yes, I use the Survey Pro 5. x and 4.x, too. Except I use StarNet to do the adjustment. The software has a converter that takes the RAW file and converts it to a text file and perform the LSA. It automaticlally finds the traverse stations too, and if you purchase the GPS add-on, you can put in GPS baseline solultion files too. It was very easy to learn and gives a good report and more flexibility for reduction. For example, you can hold vertical on a control point without holding horizontal. Not sure about how it will handle the new *.Survey files, as it doesnt' read them, but there is an option to split out the Raw and JOB file. From what I am told, you have to have another license and subscription to read a survey file type.
Surveyor Lee.