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Arnold for Max update?

27 REPLIES 27
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Message 1 of 28
TMat
2910 Views, 27 Replies

Arnold for Max update?

Hi.

 

When can we expect an update of Arnold for 3DS Max 2018?

 

I would really like to see the Arnold Properties Catmull-Clark subdivision bug fixed.  Without proper displacement, Arnold is incomplete as a production level rendering engine.

 

I would appreciate it if someone could shed some light on the topic.

 

Thanks.

27 REPLIES 27
Message 2 of 28
TMat
in reply to: TMat

Seriously?

 

I'm bordering on a full on rant here.

 

A bit of transparency would be nice.  Where's the road map for the development of Arnold in Max?

 

PS:  Mental Ray (before it was removed from Max) had a similar issue with sub-division affecting displacement years ago and was finally fixed.  I'm hoping someone at ADSK can remember this happening before and actually do something about it this time around.

 

Are we all going back to the drawing board on this one??

 

Pls reply ASAP.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Message 3 of 28
Stephen.Blair
in reply to: TMat

 

3ds Max gives you triangles, not quad polygons, so  there's no simple fix. MAXtoA exports what it gets from 3ds Max, and because it's not quad polys, you get the subdivision problem. If MAXtoA could get quads there would be smoother subdivision.

 

 



// Stephen Blair
// Arnold Renderer Support
Message 4 of 28
TMat
in reply to: Stephen.Blair

Thanks for your reply.

 

While I'm not an expert in this area, Catmull-Clark subdivision was implemented in Max with open sub-div (and Turbosmooth?) some time ago.

 

As I have pointed out in my previous post, mental ray had a remarkably similar issue with incorrect subdivision resulting in warped UV's etc several years ago until it was fixed.  Since then, both traditional and vector displacement have worked quite well with mental ray in Max.

 

I can't see how this is a big issue.

 

 

Message 5 of 28
jamesw
in reply to: TMat

Really would have been nice if Arnold included network rendering for free now its included with Max, baring in mind we already pay for 3DS Max!. Our whole setup is based around Mental Ray. This is now also requiring a licence for network rendering. There no incentive to move to Arnold as I don't want to change the studios workflows. I would of however if we could network render at no extra cost!

Message 6 of 28
TMat
in reply to: jamesw

I agree with you completely James.

 

When it was  announced that the Arnold and Mental Ray rendering engines would now require an additional fee to enable network rendering it was a kick to the teeth for anyone who had become accustomed to 3ds Max as a complete production tool and had used it as such reliably for close to a decade.

 

What's worse is that both Arnold AND Mental Ray in their current state appear to be unfit for any real production.

 

For a company (ADSK) who are aggressively introducing a new model of licensing including higher costs in general for all users I don't think they could make a worse introduction to Max 2018.

 

This is poor form Autodesk.

 

 

 

 

 

Message 7 of 28
TMat
in reply to: Stephen.Blair

I understand this is not an easy problem to solve, but can I honestly ask how long how it will be until we get a fix for the error?

 

Taking a good look at the situation I wonder if it is beneficial to invest in learning Arnold at all.

 

I am not here to beat anyone up but if your **** is not together by now, why should anyone invest the time in learning the new rendering engine at all?

 

Message 8 of 28
TMat
in reply to: TMat

My last comment must have come across a lot harsher than I intended.

 

It had been a frustrating week of technical issues with Max 2018.

 

No offence intended to the MtoA team.

 

I do hope the next release will address the above mentioned issues.

 

Cheers and good luck.

Message 9 of 28
RGhost77
in reply to: TMat

Message 10 of 28
RGhost77
in reply to: RGhost77

MAXtoA 1.0.832 , subdiv/displacement still not fixed. Very bad. Smiley Sad


Royal Ghost | veda3d.com
Message 11 of 28
TMat
in reply to: RGhost77

Yes, this is very disappointing as nothing has been done about the subdiv/displacement problem that has been reported months ago.

 

Is there an Arnold for Max or Solid Angle rep here we can talk to regarding this issue?

 

I am just about ready to walk away...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Message 12 of 28
TMat
in reply to: TMat

Thankyou @Stephen.Blair for your explanation of the situation from Solid Angle's position.

 

It seems the issue is in Autodesk's hands now.

 

What can be done?

 

I insist on a sense of urgency (from an end user point-of-view).  I am not willing to wait years for this to be resolved.  Who could afford to?

 

For me, the problem will be addressed OR I will simply abandon "Arnold for Max" for a more proven 3rd party rendering solution.

 

Who will be accountable for this issue?

 

I hope this message reaches SOMEONE.  

 

Cheers.

 

 

 

 

Message 13 of 28
RGhost77
in reply to: TMat

ADSK, come on! It's ridicules to publish  features of MAXtoA which not working properly! MAXtoA 1.2.893 still doesn't works properly with quads but in "Enchantments"  we see - "Subdivision frustum culling options: it is now possible not to subdivide patches outside the view or dicing camera frustum."... this is broken too because main subdivision not works properly.

 

ADSK PLEASE FIX ARNOLD Catmull-Clark subdivision FIRST!!! Because Opensubdiv modifier not an option for serious production with displacement.


Royal Ghost | veda3d.com
Message 14 of 28
HazardousAdsk
in reply to: RGhost77

Hi,

 

Yeah, it is a hole in max.  Unfortunately as has been said, by default through the rendering process, Max provides triangles.  The RenderingAPI that MAXtoA is built on uses that to deliver the all the mesh data Arnold needs.  However, you loose the Quads that needed for Catmull.  We have been investigating ways to support it, and trust me its top of the list of things to fix, we just haven't been able to get it to work quite right.

 

I can assure you, people will know when it is fixed 🙂

 

Neil

Message 15 of 28
RGhost77
in reply to: HazardousAdsk

Thank you @HazardousAdsk for promising answer! Glad to hear that is on the top of the list of things to fix.


Royal Ghost | veda3d.com
Message 16 of 28
TMat
in reply to: RGhost77

So, it's now well into 2018 and there's still no news on this issue.

 

Two things now occur to me.

 

#1:  A solution has been found but someone higher-up in management has insisted that the fix can't be published until Max 2019 is released.

 

OR

 

#2:  No solution has been found and MtoA has sadly been left with a hole in it and (to speculate) it's further development will end up abandoned as many other software's acquired by Autodesk have been in the past.

 

Honestly, from what I have experienced so far with Arnold it is a very capable render engine but I would like to see more of a road-map of it's future in 3ds Max.  That's assuming there IS one.

 

 

Every paying user of Max is now facing the maintenance vs subscription "fork in the road" so I really think now is the time for Autodesk to be more transparent regarding the future development of it's software.

 

It would be great to see some vision.  People are already looking at alternatives to your software.

 

/rant

 

So what's going on?   😄

 

 

Message 17 of 28
RGhost77
in reply to: TMat

Development MAXtoA in past of half year is very slow. I hope new features comes with 2019 but if not it will be epic fail.

MAXtoA was great start but as always in ADSK now it looks abandoned. That really sad. 😕

 

I'm looking forward that MAXtoA will be support UDIM/Tile maps natively not through MAX's Multi Tile Map, because Multi Tile Map not memory effective.

 

 


Royal Ghost | veda3d.com
Message 18 of 28
Stephen.Blair
in reply to: RGhost77


@RGhost77 wrote:

Development MAXtoA in past of half year is very slow. I hope new features comes with 2019 but if not it will be epic fail.

MAXtoA was great start but as always in ADSK now it looks abandoned. That really sad. 😕

 

I'm looking forward that MAXtoA will be support UDIM/Tile maps natively not through MAX's Multi Tile Map, because Multi Tile Map not memory effective.

 

 


The Image node supports udim tokens.



// Stephen Blair
// Arnold Renderer Support
Message 19 of 28
sandbergGJZSN
in reply to: TMat

I have a tips for fixing this issue...

 

vlado@chaosgroup.com

 

Vray's subdivision has been working fine for years. He might be able to help you.

 

 

Message 20 of 28
TMat
in reply to: sandbergGJZSN

Hello again to the Max for Arnold team,

 

It has been the best part of a year since a rep has stated that the issue has been at the top of the list of things to fix.

 

I had the impression that this would be solved within a matter of months not years.

 

I give kudos for the overall progress you have made with Arnold in the meantime but we really need to see an update on this particular issue.

 

Can someone please let us know what's going on. 

 

As your clients we expect a reasonable level of accountability.

 

Thank you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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