15+ Hour Renders (Max + Vray Renderer 1.5)

[Anonymous]

Hey,
I'm fairly new to Max and this is the first time I've been required to do any kind of photo realistic scene. I have decided to take vray on as my renderer of choice given it reputation with interior scenes. Unfortunately I've had no previous experience with it and I'm finding I'm banging my head against a brick wall :wall: as I keep going round and round in circles following the various contradicting tutorials and tips/tricks.

Skip the intro.. Whats the problem:
For a relatively simple scene I've render times of 15+ hours per frame and simply wondered if individuals maybe able to suggest some adjustments to my current settings.

System:
Duo Quad Q6600 2.4GHz
4GB 800Mhz RAM
1TB RAID 0 Storage
NVIDIA 8800GTX 756MB RAM

Below you can see my "shop scene". Although I've some experience modelling, I'd still count myself as being relatively new to Max. I've often come across very complex scenes with very low polygon counts, so I presume my first problem is the amount of polygons in my scene?

Polygon Count: 1,112,024
Verts: 701,697
http://img88.imageshack.us/my.php?image=maxviewze2.jpg

Below are the current render settings I'm using picked and modified from a number of sources:
www.aversis.be/tutorials/vray/index.htm
www.evermotion.org/tutorials/mich/
www.vray.us/vray_tutorials/rendering_vray_interior_tutorial.shtml

Resolution 1191x842 (A3 @ 72dpi)
Saving in a JPEG format

I found that the only way my scene was sufficiently illuminated was through using the light cache as secondary bounce instead of the Quasi-Monti Carlo

http://img84.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rendersettingsbi0.jpg

Things such as Vray Caustics etc that I've not included are disabled/in their default state

Now as far as materials go, I've dropped down all the sub division back down to their default 8 after experimenting with them at 50 for glass and chrome. I've also put the max depth back to 5 having experimented with it at 10 for glass (172 Hour Render Estimate).

http://img88.imageshack.us/my.php?image=glassmaterialbj4.jpg

Glass table top is a VrayBlendMtl, which uses a glass and a frosted glass material to create the etched logo you can see in the image below (This render also shows an issue I'm having with the glass material not allowing lighting through properly. Ive made sure affect shadow and alpha have been enabled)

http://img142.imageshack.us/my.php?image=92220270jc8.jpg

I've used 4 lights:
1x vray spread across the roof enclosed within a hollow box, which shines through a number of light fittings (seen in the first image above).
2x vray lights in the fitting rooms to further illuminate the rooms and cast appropriate shadows.
1x direct light to act as a sun with vray shadows enabled.

http://img100.imageshack.us/my.php?image=directhd7.jpg
I've left their diffuse sub div at their default 120 in the render light settings.

You can see an overview of the shop, which still needs work here:

http://img142.imageshack.us/my.php?image=51235169xk0.jpg
If your able to help and would like me to send you over my scene please PM me.

Any help would be greatly greatly! appreciated.
Thanks in advance.

[Anonymous]

Hey,
I'm fairly new to Max and this is the first time I've been required to do any kind of photo realistic scene. I have decided to take vray on as my renderer of choice given it reputation with interior scenes. Unfortunately I've had no previous experience with it and I'm finding I'm banging my head against a brick wall :wall: as I keep going round and round in circles following the various contradicting tutorials and tips/tricks.

Skip the intro.. Whats the problem:
For a relatively simple scene I've render times of 15+ hours per frame and simply wondered if individuals maybe able to suggest some adjustments to my current settings.

System:
Duo Quad Q6600 2.4GHz
4GB 800Mhz RAM
1TB RAID 0 Storage
NVIDIA 8800GTX 756MB RAM

Below you can see my "shop scene". Although I've some experience modelling, I'd still count myself as being relatively new to Max. I've often come across very complex scenes with very low polygon counts, so I presume my first problem is the amount of polygons in my scene?

Polygon Count: 1,112,024
Verts: 701,697
http://img88.imageshack.us/my.php?image=maxviewze2.jpg

Below are the current render settings I'm using picked and modified from a number of sources:
www.aversis.be/tutorials/vray/index.htm
www.evermotion.org/tutorials/mich/
www.vray.us/vray_tutorials/rendering_vray_interior_tutorial.shtml

Resolution 1191x842 (A3 @ 72dpi)
Saving in a JPEG format

I found that the only way my scene was sufficiently illuminated was through using the light cache as secondary bounce instead of the Quasi-Monti Carlo

http://img84.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rendersettingsbi0.jpg

Things such as Vray Caustics etc that I've not included are disabled/in their default state

Now as far as materials go, I've dropped down all the sub division back down to their default 8 after experimenting with them at 50 for glass and chrome. I've also put the max depth back to 5 having experimented with it at 10 for glass (172 Hour Render Estimate).

http://img88.imageshack.us/my.php?image=glassmaterialbj4.jpg

Glass table top is a VrayBlendMtl, which uses a glass and a frosted glass material to create the etched logo you can see in the image below (This render also shows an issue I'm having with the glass material not allowing lighting through properly. Ive made sure affect shadow and alpha have been enabled)

http://img142.imageshack.us/my.php?image=92220270jc8.jpg

I've used 4 lights:
1x vray spread across the roof enclosed within a hollow box, which shines through a number of light fittings (seen in the first image above).
2x vray lights in the fitting rooms to further illuminate the rooms and cast appropriate shadows.
1x direct light to act as a sun with vray shadows enabled.

http://img100.imageshack.us/my.php?image=directhd7.jpg
I've left their diffuse sub div at their default 120 in the render light settings.

You can see an overview of the shop, which still needs work here:

http://img142.imageshack.us/my.php?image=51235169xk0.jpg
If your able to help and would like me to send you over my scene please PM me.

Any help would be greatly greatly! appreciated.
Thanks in advance.

[Anonymous]

Hi Jason,

A few very quick observations.

Firstly the newest version of Vray is 1.5 service pack 1 - Log in to your
download area at chaos and grab that. It IS faster than the RC versions.

Your rQMC subdivs are set at a min of 16, as this is a 'global' switch it
will impact ALL subdiv setting in VRay, for now I would suggest working
with the default of 8.

Your AA will also force up render times, certainly until you are ready for
a 'Final' render I would drop them down quite a bit and you should drop
render time drastically.

Regards
Bri

[Anonymous]

Hi Jason,

A few very quick observations.

Firstly the newest version of Vray is 1.5 service pack 1 - Log in to your
download area at chaos and grab that. It IS faster than the RC versions.

Your rQMC subdivs are set at a min of 16, as this is a 'global' switch it
will impact ALL subdiv setting in VRay, for now I would suggest working
with the default of 8.

Your AA will also force up render times, certainly until you are ready for
a 'Final' render I would drop them down quite a bit and you should drop
render time drastically.

Regards
Bri

[Anonymous]

a good resource for vray and learning it is the vray insider guide. its a free pdf thats floating around on the internet somewhere, and also probably the most invaluable guide on the internet!

the below example is referring to a simple 800 x 600 render of an interior using no vray lights, just a normal omni with the light switched off and the shadows enabled and set to vray shadows. Then on top of this, enable the top two environmental overides and change colour to white. and apply a white vray material to all objects.

please read this to notice how some things can effect changes and render times;

A typical simple render with just an irradiance map will take me on my machine between 15 and 25 seconds.

A typical simple render with just an irradiance map and reflections will take me on my machine between 25 and 50 seconds

A typical simple render with just an irradiance map and HDRI will take me on my machine between 35 and 60 seconds

A typical simple render with just an irradiance map and reflections and refraction will take me on my machine between 60 and 150 seconds

A typical simple render with just an irradiance map and caustics will take me on my machine about 3 minutes.

I hope this can clear a few things up and best of luck, if nothing else it may show the difference that some of the options or settings can take., please, please find and read the vray insider guide, I can't emphasise it enough, it will show you exactly how an irradiance map works, and once you understand that, you can get lightning fast renders because you understand what things to change. The guide is only about 12 pages.

all the best,

al
x

[Anonymous]

a good resource for vray and learning it is the vray insider guide. its a free pdf thats floating around on the internet somewhere, and also probably the most invaluable guide on the internet!

the below example is referring to a simple 800 x 600 render of an interior using no vray lights, just a normal omni with the light switched off and the shadows enabled and set to vray shadows. Then on top of this, enable the top two environmental overides and change colour to white. and apply a white vray material to all objects.

please read this to notice how some things can effect changes and render times;

A typical simple render with just an irradiance map will take me on my machine between 15 and 25 seconds.

A typical simple render with just an irradiance map and reflections will take me on my machine between 25 and 50 seconds

A typical simple render with just an irradiance map and HDRI will take me on my machine between 35 and 60 seconds

A typical simple render with just an irradiance map and reflections and refraction will take me on my machine between 60 and 150 seconds

A typical simple render with just an irradiance map and caustics will take me on my machine about 3 minutes.

I hope this can clear a few things up and best of luck, if nothing else it may show the difference that some of the options or settings can take., please, please find and read the vray insider guide, I can't emphasise it enough, it will show you exactly how an irradiance map works, and once you understand that, you can get lightning fast renders because you understand what things to change. The guide is only about 12 pages.

all the best,

al
x

[Anonymous]

Well, v-ray is an awesome renderer, and expensive. So I have never used it, (I use mental ray). For 1 million polys and a system config like yours, I think 15 hours is crazy, I have an interior scene I am doing, and it as about 300,000 polygons, and 170,000 vertices, and with 50 final gather points enabled, and displacement maps, and foliage, the render time for a 1280x712 resolution if a little over 14 minutes, and my laptop sucks!(check out my signature). I have never used v-ray so i don't know. 15 hours seems a little drastic, but then again i have never used v-ray

[Anonymous]

Well, v-ray is an awesome renderer, and expensive. So I have never used it, (I use mental ray). For 1 million polys and a system config like yours, I think 15 hours is crazy, I have an interior scene I am doing, and it as about 300,000 polygons, and 170,000 vertices, and with 50 final gather points enabled, and displacement maps, and foliage, the render time for a 1280x712 resolution if a little over 14 minutes, and my laptop sucks!(check out my signature). I have never used v-ray so i don't know. 15 hours seems a little drastic, but then again i have never used v-ray

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the replies guys. Really appreciate it.
Sorry it's taken so long to get back to you. I've had a busy few days..

Brilliant recommendation on the Vray Inside Al.. Can't recommend it enough

Cheers
Jason

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the replies guys. Really appreciate it.
Sorry it's taken so long to get back to you. I've had a busy few days..

Brilliant recommendation on the Vray Inside Al.. Can't recommend it enough

Cheers
Jason

[Anonymous]

Your settings are fine except under rQMC Sampler -> Global subdivs mulitplier @ 16. I reccomend 1 (Default) for test test renders and say 2-3 for final render. This is whats causing your huge render times.

[Anonymous]

Your settings are fine except under rQMC Sampler -> Global subdivs mulitplier @ 16. I reccomend 1 (Default) for test test renders and say 2-3 for final render. This is whats causing your huge render times.

[jhostick]

Try rendering your scene using Vray defaults and see what happens to your render times. I've usually found the presets to work pretty good, and rarely have had to render anything above the Medium preset. Moving to High will dramatically increase your render times, and Very High will take forever.

In my expereience, anyway.

JH

[jhostick]

Try rendering your scene using Vray defaults and see what happens to your render times. I've usually found the presets to work pretty good, and rarely have had to render anything above the Medium preset. Moving to High will dramatically increase your render times, and Very High will take forever.

In my expereience, anyway.

JH

[Anonymous]

Try rendering your scene using Vray defaults and see what happens to your render times. I've usually found the presets to work pretty good, and rarely have had to render anything above the Medium preset. Moving to High will dramatically increase your render times, and Very High will take forever.

In my expereience, anyway.

JH

default settings gave very poor results
Well I played around with the settings for quite sometime now and managed to get everything but the glass to look how I wanted within a reasonable render time.

http://img73.imageshack.us/my.php?image=76tn7.jpg

I'm currently rendering out my image with the global multiplier set to 8 as I've found its the only thing that works, but unfortunately throws my render times up somewhat.

How can I improve the quality of the glass without effecting the other elements?

Ive tried:
1.setting the glass refract/reflect subdiv to a value of 300 going on the principle that the global sub div would have multiplied this value
2.enabling interpolation and playing around with those settings.
3.increasing the number of shadow subdiv the light has
4.increasing light cache to a value of say 2500
5.changing the glass so that it is simply plain and not frosted etched glass
6.setting the sampler noise threshold down to 0.001
7.switching the filter modes mitchell.. area.. etc
8.setting the adapive subdiv min 8 max 8
9.setting the samber min samples to 16.. 32

giving me a headache!

I'm using low irradi preset as I've notice no boost in quality/realism using the med/high..


1024x576 final render
Having found that higher settings seem to be eating up my memory I've given up and think I'll have to settle with this:

Image Sampler: Adaptive Sub, Area Filter, Size 1.5
Irradiance Map: Low, HSph Sub 50, Interp 35
Light Cache Sub div 1000, Sample Size 0.02
rQMC Sample: Adaptive 0.85, Noise threshold 0.002, Min Samples 8, Global 1.
Adaptive Sub Div Min 4 / Max 4


http://img227.imageshack.us/my.php?image=50000if9.jpg

May try reverting back to Mental Ray to see what kind of quality I get, but don't think I can face going through and setting all the materials up.

[Anonymous]

Try rendering your scene using Vray defaults and see what happens to your render times. I've usually found the presets to work pretty good, and rarely have had to render anything above the Medium preset. Moving to High will dramatically increase your render times, and Very High will take forever.

In my expereience, anyway.

JH

default settings gave very poor results
Well I played around with the settings for quite sometime now and managed to get everything but the glass to look how I wanted within a reasonable render time.

http://img73.imageshack.us/my.php?image=76tn7.jpg

I'm currently rendering out my image with the global multiplier set to 8 as I've found its the only thing that works, but unfortunately throws my render times up somewhat.

How can I improve the quality of the glass without effecting the other elements?

Ive tried:
1.setting the glass refract/reflect subdiv to a value of 300 going on the principle that the global sub div would have multiplied this value
2.enabling interpolation and playing around with those settings.
3.increasing the number of shadow subdiv the light has
4.increasing light cache to a value of say 2500
5.changing the glass so that it is simply plain and not frosted etched glass
6.setting the sampler noise threshold down to 0.001
7.switching the filter modes mitchell.. area.. etc
8.setting the adapive subdiv min 8 max 8
9.setting the samber min samples to 16.. 32

giving me a headache!

I'm using low irradi preset as I've notice no boost in quality/realism using the med/high..


1024x576 final render
Having found that higher settings seem to be eating up my memory I've given up and think I'll have to settle with this:

Image Sampler: Adaptive Sub, Area Filter, Size 1.5
Irradiance Map: Low, HSph Sub 50, Interp 35
Light Cache Sub div 1000, Sample Size 0.02
rQMC Sample: Adaptive 0.85, Noise threshold 0.002, Min Samples 8, Global 1.
Adaptive Sub Div Min 4 / Max 4


http://img227.imageshack.us/my.php?image=50000if9.jpg

May try reverting back to Mental Ray to see what kind of quality I get, but don't think I can face going through and setting all the materials up.

[Anonymous]

It would appear that following my decision to reset all render settings I had forgotten to uncheck the default lights in the global settings, which seemed to be at the route of a number of quality issues.

[Anonymous]

It would appear that following my decision to reset all render settings I had forgotten to uncheck the default lights in the global settings, which seemed to be at the route of a number of quality issues.

[Anonymous]

Thank you for your help guys. Think I managed to crack the issues I was having, which were a combination of the "reflect on back side" within the glass material. I'm not too sure about the render settings as I just reverted back to the originally uploaded scene, which I luckily still had access to.

I've a few things to tweak, but these are how the final renders are going to be looking like. I decided to render without the etched glass material for these renders, but I'm currently in the process of rendering the etched version as we speak.

http://img501.imageshack.us/my.php?image=camera10000zy6.jpg

http://img225.imageshack.us/my.php?image=camera30000sp7.jpg

http://img225.imageshack.us/my.php?image=camera40000jf3.jpg

http://img227.imageshack.us/my.php?image=camera60000cu4.jpg

I don't know if I'd mentioned before, but these were for a uni project. This is my first interior scene.. Well first big MAX project come to think of it.

[Anonymous]

Thank you for your help guys. Think I managed to crack the issues I was having, which were a combination of the "reflect on back side" within the glass material. I'm not too sure about the render settings as I just reverted back to the originally uploaded scene, which I luckily still had access to.

I've a few things to tweak, but these are how the final renders are going to be looking like. I decided to render without the etched glass material for these renders, but I'm currently in the process of rendering the etched version as we speak.

http://img501.imageshack.us/my.php?image=camera10000zy6.jpg

http://img225.imageshack.us/my.php?image=camera30000sp7.jpg

http://img225.imageshack.us/my.php?image=camera40000jf3.jpg

http://img227.imageshack.us/my.php?image=camera60000cu4.jpg

I don't know if I'd mentioned before, but these were for a uni project. This is my first interior scene.. Well first big MAX project come to think of it.

[Anonymous]

they're damned good renders considering you've only just started learning. amazing stuff, keep up the good work 🙂 cheers

[Anonymous]

they're damned good renders considering you've only just started learning. amazing stuff, keep up the good work 🙂 cheers

[Anonymous]

Thanks Lynandal 😉

[Anonymous]

Thanks Lynandal 😉

[joshpurple]

I agree with Lynandal, great work! 🙂

[joshpurple]

I agree with Lynandal, great work! 🙂