Using "Select and Scale" on groups

[Anonymous]

Hi! 🙂

I created a model of a wheel in 3ds Max 2016, that consists of multiple objects, like, tire, tread, rim etc. I grouped them into a group called "Wheel" and made a copy of it. I moved that copy into another position and scaled it. Now, when I try to ungroup that new group, a scale of the objects within it doesn't retain. It doesn't even match the original group's scale. All objects scale independently. For example, the cloned rim becomes unproportionally bigger than the tire, whereas it's all ok with original group. I should say that both groups have a nested group that consists of a tire and a tread objects.

I've read here, on Autodesk Knowledge Network, that "when you Ungroup a group, the objects within the group lose all group transforms that were applied on nonzero frames, but they retain any individual animation." So that means that when you scale a whole group and then perform Ungroup, a scaling that has been applied to it, becomes lost, am I right?

I decided to find a solution, how to save a changed scale of a group, but haven't found anything so far; what I did find, is some forum messages that said that you need to be careful with "Select and Scale" tool and groups.

I'm just learning, so I wanted to ask a few questions. I will be glad if someone helps me with them.

1. Should really one be careful with "Select and Scale" tool and Group tools and why? I've seen people using them often in video tutorials about modeling, and also, I've seen making a copy of a group, scaling it and ungrouping it without such consequences like what I've described earlier (but the person who did the tutorial was using 3ds Max 2014).

2. Is there any way to save scale transform of a group?

3. What is a proper way to scale an object and its sub-objects without encountering problems in the future?

Thanks in advance. I'm sorry for any grammar mistakes that you may find during the reading of my message.

[Anonymous · Accepted solution]

To be honest, groups aren't even the best way to "group" things.  Yes, it's quick and easy, but there are better ways, which retain hierarchal structure, and make more logical sense in terms of transforms.

Depending on the kind of object, I'd much rather use linked objects, or just attach the separate objects together as sub-objects (this one is especially best for scaling).  You should always scale objects in sub-object mode anyway, or reset the transforms after you scale in object mode (the reset buttons for scale and transform are located in the hierarchy tab).  Attaching those parts as sub-objects makes sense, especially for a wheel.  Then reset Xform to be safe.  You can also scale multiple objects at once with the Xform modifier (by scaling the Xform gizmo)  Just select all the objects you want to scale, apply a Xform modifier once to the selection, scale them with the Xform gizmo level, then collapse the modifier down.  Another way to "group" things is by using Named Selection Sets.  This is a very logical method.  Or, by Layers.  Groups may be simple to use, but they often present problems when animating or scaling, like the one you are facing.

[Anonymous]

Thank you very much! It was very helpful.

So, I guess, groups should be used only when the modeling stage is completed and you know for sure that no further modifications to the model will be applied, right?

[Anonymous]

Well, using Groups is ok if you're absolutely certain no transformations or further adjustments will be made to the scene later on. However, if you've managed to create a full scene using some of the other object management tools I've mentioned, there shouldn't be a need to use Group on anything anyway.  I think specifically in the case of something like a wheel, attaching the various parts as sub-objects, and assigning unique material ID's to each, is the best way to go.  

[Anonymous]

Yeah, that makes sense. Thanks again 🙂