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Problem with mesh after Boolean

66 REPLIES 66
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Message 1 of 67
Anonymous
4047 Views, 66 Replies

Problem with mesh after Boolean

I'm trying to do a simple operation. I have a large cylinder to which I want to take away 9 smaller cylinders from it using a boolean, leaving 9 holes. After this I convert to an editable poly and I want to chamfer the edges of the holes that now remain and apply a turbosmooth.

The problem is when I apply the boolean it totally messes up the structure on the surface of the cylinder's mesh. Can anyone see where I'm going wrong here? I don't want to have to patch everything up here, just need to find a simple solution to what should be a very simple problem.

Or is there another way that i should be going about this?

16336_ASGWa7jSzVz6A6QCd4eU.zip

66 REPLIES 66
Message 21 of 67
dongray
in reply to: Anonymous

I don't see a chamfer option in the Poly Select dialog.
Message 22 of 67
Steve_Curley
in reply to: Anonymous

Create a Cylinder at the Origin, Height 100, Radius 65, Sides 10, Height Segments 1, Cap Segments 1.
Position it precisely at the Origin (right click the spinners). Convert to Editable Poly.
Select the Top and Bottom polys and delete them. Select all the polys and Flip them.

Select the Top Border, switch to the Top viewport, Select and Uniform Scale, View, Use Selection Center and Shift+Scale away from the model. Not too far, but far enough that the Chamfer (to be done next) won't cause the edges to meet - 150% should be good. Repeat the above once more, this time about 200%.

Using the up/down buttons by "Ring" select the innermost circle of edges, click the Chamfer dialog button, 3 and 1 segment should do - you can see the effect in the viewport - ok the dialog.

At the Object level, Shift+Move along the X axis to clone the object (copy, not instance). Move it to exactly 450 (+ or -, it doesn't matter which).

Back to the Perspective view, Move, View, Use Transform Coordinate Centre (which happens to be the Origin - now you begin to see why it's important to model at the origin). Click the Array button, change the Type to Copy, enter 360 in the Rotation Total field, 6 in the 1D Count field and click the Preview button - you should have a ring of 6 cylinders. Click OK.

Select the central cylinder and attach the others to it. Top Viewport, 3D Snap to Vertex, Polygon level, Create. Fill in the gaps by creating Quads (4-sided polys). This is easier to see than describe - see the images. For each poly you want to create, click each of the 4 vertices in turn, starting and ending on the same one.
When completed, select the outer border and Shift+Scale it outwards to 110%.

For the outer section, create a new cylinder again centered on the origin - same details as for the original "hole" cylinder above, but make the Sides 20 and the Radius however big it needs to be - I have no reference other than your original scene, so I used a "reasonable" figure of 900. Convert to EP, remove the top and bottom polys. Top viewport, Select the top Border, Select and Uniform Scale, View, use Selection Center, Shift+Scale the border in to 94%, then again to 92%. Using the same method as above, select the outer ring of edges, and chamfer them by the same amount

Select the main part of the model and attach the new cylinder to it. Vertex level, Snaps on, Target Weld. Starting at the top (as you look at it in the top viewport, target weld the vertices, working from the inner edge to the outer one each time, and working down the sides, then start at the bottom and work up. You should end up with the next image - there will be 2 triangular "gaps" which we'll fix next. Back to Polgon level, Create, and make the polys to fill in the 2 gaps. Triangles don't smooth well when the polys are curved, but they're ok on a flat surface - this is why all the border extrusions - to keep those areas in quads, leaving any triangles for the flat areas.

Nearly done - Perspective viewport, Move, View, Use Pivot Point Center. choose the Mirror tool, Mirror in X, Copy (no offset) and OK the dialog. Select the upper portion, attach the lower portion to it. Front (or Side) viewport, Vertex level, area select all the vertices along the joint betwwen the 2 halves of the model - weld them - you shouldn't need a very large weld threshold as the vertices should be coincident (another useful side-effect of modelling on the axes). Those new edges along the joint are actually superfluous - you can remove them if you want. Edge level, area select in the same way as for the vertices, but you'll notice that you have vertical edges selected as well. Alt+area select those edges to delect them.
Now for the fun bit - on the selection rollout you'll see 5 buttons for Vertex, Edge etc - these perform the same function as the ones in the stack (and the 1 through 5 digit shortcuts) but with 1 useful extra feature. If you Ctrl+Click them, they select (in our case) the Vertices (or edges) associated with the selected edges (or vertices), so Ctrl-Click the Vertex button. Click (normally, without control) the Edge button again, Click Remove, click the Vertex button, Remove. This just helps keep the poly count down a little bit.

You can now turn on NURMS as I did, or apply Meshsmooth or turbosmooth.

If anyone else wants to comment on this, tell me there's a much easier way, or point out any glaring errors - feel free 😛


Max 2016 (SP1/EXT1)
Win7Pro x64 (SP1). i5-3570K @ 4.4GHz, 8Gb Ram, DX11.
nVidia GTX760 (2GB) (Driver 430.86).

Message 23 of 67
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Ok everyone, thanks for all your input and the great response here. Steve, I followed your method and picked up some very useful tricks along the way too - thankyou very much. I agree that using boolean should be a last resort, it's better to start from scratch and produce a clean model than having to patch one up afterwards eh. It's just the speed/versatility that a boolean could bring that attracted me to it.
Message 24 of 67
dongray
in reply to: Anonymous

Interesting work, Steve, how many polys?
Made this in nine steps using PowerNURBS (6920 polys).

Message 25 of 67
Steve_Curley
in reply to: Anonymous

734 (no smoothing)
2932 (NURMS, 1 iteration)
11728 (NURMS, 2 iterations)

Bear in mind I don't have PowerNurbs, so that workflow isn't available to me.

It may be possible to reduce this somewhat if you only extrude the borders once instead of twice. I was erring on the side of caution because the initial problem was one of smoothing - making very certain that there were no triangles anywhere near the chamfered edges was the primary goal.

Would you mind posting another image with Edged Faces turned on, and the object selected please? I'm just curious to see the underlying structure. I might be able to modify the above process to lower the final polycount.

Max 2016 (SP1/EXT1)
Win7Pro x64 (SP1). i5-3570K @ 4.4GHz, 8Gb Ram, DX11.
nVidia GTX760 (2GB) (Driver 430.86).

Message 26 of 67
dongray
in reply to: Anonymous

It certainly shows you have some depth of understanding of how Max works.
The Boolean issue is really something that is centralized with Max, using PowerNURBS,
Boolean is a standard tool and though there can be issues on occasion, normally it is without complication.
I used common extrusion and Boolean in my latest example and is very clean.

Edit: I selected the top face and ran the Fillet tool and got the results seen.

Message 27 of 67
Steve_Curley
in reply to: Anonymous

That looks like an "Isoline" display - there's obviously nothing like (nearly) 7000 polys shown there. Can I be a pain and get you to turn that (isoline) off so I can see all the polys/edges?

Max 2016 (SP1/EXT1)
Win7Pro x64 (SP1). i5-3570K @ 4.4GHz, 8Gb Ram, DX11.
nVidia GTX760 (2GB) (Driver 430.86).

Message 28 of 67
dongray
in reply to: Anonymous

Not sure, Steve, just hit F3 for showing the mesh.
Here it is with the solid showing too, there aren't any other lines to see.
If I collapse it to a mesh it gets ugly.

Message 29 of 67
Steve_Curley
in reply to: Anonymous

What if you just "Collapse to" which should result in an EP I think? Or just Convert To EP.

Without having PowerNurbs it's difficult to say how to show them, but there must be a lot more polys there than are visible.

Max 2016 (SP1/EXT1)
Win7Pro x64 (SP1). i5-3570K @ 4.4GHz, 8Gb Ram, DX11.
nVidia GTX760 (2GB) (Driver 430.86).

Message 30 of 67
dongray
in reply to: Anonymous

Here's a quick video of the process, obviously more than 9 mouse clicks but nine (seven?) major things (create circle 2x, duplicate/ array, extrude 2 objects, Boolean, Fillet).
3.9 mb on this one so you'll have to go to the Screencast site to view.
Message 31 of 67
dongray
in reply to: Anonymous

Ok, collapsing makes it 7000 polys.
Here is the screen.

Message 32 of 67
dongray
in reply to: Anonymous

Here's the Max 2009 file with the collapsed object, if interested.

16408_YDm7loKgJQCo78fQlqGg.zip

Message 33 of 67
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

FWIW... I got this via attaching spline circles, add bevel mod, add Subdivide mod then Meshsmooth. Had to noodle around w/ mod settings to kill the usual artifacts, but I was surprised to get rid of them. 9500 faces tho... Max vers 9.

16410_bJDTwmc23koYZ85pEWhV.zip

Message 34 of 67
Steve_Curley
in reply to: Anonymous

Interesting workflow, but I'm not (yet) 100% convinced of the results (although they look good). Multiple long thin triangles emanating from a single vertex is something I normally try to avoid. On top of that, not everyone has PowerNurbs, or indeed any 3rd party plugins, so any solution (to the OP's problem) needs to be available in "vanilla" Max.

Ok, I loaded your file - looks nice, until...
Turn on NURMS, 1 iteration. On my system it all goes wrong, the mesh turns red and is seriously unhappy.
If I take my model, I can go up to 750K polys (5 iterations) and apart from the viewport slowing down - no problems. This is in Max 2009, in Max 9 it starts to go wrong (in a different way) after 3 iterations.
This is not to say "I'm right, you're wrong" in any way - just pointing out a potential pitfall of taking the quick route over the more "labour intensive" route.

Attached a Max 9 file.

16416_lT0g6jWe5Zmjr8H7QMcS.zip


Max 2016 (SP1/EXT1)
Win7Pro x64 (SP1). i5-3570K @ 4.4GHz, 8Gb Ram, DX11.
nVidia GTX760 (2GB) (Driver 430.86).

Message 35 of 67
dongray
in reply to: Anonymous

Or course you are right about using plugins and vanilla Max, which is why I started not using PN.
It's been quite an exercise of methods and approaches.
Message 36 of 67
Steve_Curley
in reply to: Anonymous

Attached a Max 9 file to my post above, and made some textual edits too.

Indeed a fruitful discussion overall. A viable, relatively low-poly construction method as an alternative to Booleans would be very useful to many people (me included). My method works, but is time consuming and not very low poly. PN works if you don't intend to do anything else to the model afterwards. I'll have a look at the "FakeBool" shortly.

Max 2016 (SP1/EXT1)
Win7Pro x64 (SP1). i5-3570K @ 4.4GHz, 8Gb Ram, DX11.
nVidia GTX760 (2GB) (Driver 430.86).

Message 37 of 67
dongray
in reply to: Anonymous

"PN works if you don’t intend to do anything else to the model afterward."

Such as?
Message 38 of 67
Steve_Curley
in reply to: Anonymous

Applying NURMS to it for one (red mesh syndrome) - it killed my max 2009 when i tried to render it, not tried it in max 9 yet.

Max 2016 (SP1/EXT1)
Win7Pro x64 (SP1). i5-3570K @ 4.4GHz, 8Gb Ram, DX11.
nVidia GTX760 (2GB) (Driver 430.86).

Message 39 of 67
dongray
in reply to: Anonymous

Well, my reason for asking is to see what you would be doing to the model that might not be handled inside of PN,
such as other modeling. I'm not familiar with NURMS so I can't tell where you are going.
And you don't have PN so you could not tell what might be possible if handled inside of the program.
Probably not interested but there is a demo.
Message 40 of 67
Steve_Curley
in reply to: Anonymous

Sub-Division Surface Rollout of an Editable Poly object (not an Edit Poly modifier though). Result is very similar to Meshsmooth or Turbosmooth.

Interesting demo, though I rarely touch NURBS at all. Seems like the PolyBoost tools (renamed to "Graphite") are part of Max 2010 - that should give us something to play with 🙂

Max 2016 (SP1/EXT1)
Win7Pro x64 (SP1). i5-3570K @ 4.4GHz, 8Gb Ram, DX11.
nVidia GTX760 (2GB) (Driver 430.86).

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