Things Backburner CANNOT handle that are ridiculous

[jon]

I've been using Backburner for a long time, and dumb design-level bugs have persisted the entire time.  I'm really tired of half-baked functionality being "just the way it is" for the part of the software that has the greatest potential to blow deadlines.

In no particular order, here are some things about Backburner that are unacceptable:

• If you change any of a job's properties from Queue Monitor, all render servers will abandon any task on that job immediately.  This includes editing frame ranges.  There is no reason that adding 50 frames to a job or turning off "every nth frame" should affect current frames being rendered in any way.  That's not only dumb, it's destructive.

• Turning on Render Elements after a job has been submitted oftentimes doesn't stick, even if the UI says it does.

• If the servers lose communication with the Manager for an instant, they will drop whatever they're doing and go to idle.  They should finish their frame and attempt to save out to the file server so that tripping over a network cable doesn't destroy hours of CPU time.

• Manager/server should be able to handle an expired DHCP lease while rendering.  If a node's IP changes, at the very least it should be able to re-register with manager and restart rendering.

• Timestamps.  Why are there no timestamps on any error messages in the Manager/Server windows?!

• Many times Server can't find the manager after the node enters/exits sleep mode.  That might be OK if you're a huge studio whose render farm is going full tilt boogie 24/7, but for most users the farm is going to sleep sometimes.

• In conjunction with the above, why don't we have Wake-on-LAN functionality built in?  We should be able to specify nodes go to sleep after a job completes and wake up when they get a new job.

Yes, Deadline exists at $200/node.  When low-end nodes come in at $800, that's a pretty high price to pay however.

[samab]

Don't waste your time.

Autodesk have already stated that they have no intetion of developing BB any further, despite the huge room for improvment. Though for some unknown reason, they do still create new releases with no extra features but more problems.

If there is one of your issues that can be fixed, the problem with changing IPs. It is worth spending the time setting the whole farm with static IPs, that will sort it.

[VishnuR]

Hi Jon,

Thank you for taking the time to submit these backburner issues.

They have now been logged internally to our engineering team under
feature improvement requests.

[jneilon]

One major bug that lastest backburner2014.0.0_1635 Introduced is the broken queue control requests. The thread is Here .  We had to backtrack after upgrading to Max 2014 back to Max 2012 because of this bug. We are still waiting for a fix so we can use Max 2014. The bug has been filed awhile ago.

[Doughboy12]

That is precious considering it has been stated that it will never get any attention or development.

[Pyro777]

Agreed. Makes you feel like AD is just trying to hold on to customers as long as possible. Feels like a sinking ship. Time will tell I suppose.

Dean

[EddiePerlberg]

As the Product Manager for 3ds Max and 3ds Max Design, I can tell you a few things.

A) BB IS being developed further. As Vishnu stated earlier in this thread, the issues heard here and from others, are being escalated to create a better backburner experience for the near future.

B) 3ds Max and 3ds Max Design are not "just holding on". There is an renewed focus on 3ds Max that will become evident as the software develops. I understand the cynasism I've seen regarding Max's future, but I can assure you, the energy is back and it's real.

C) As a part of that effort, the development team is looking into "game changing" ways to approach rendering and trying to come up with better slutions to the experience. The question then becomes, "What needs to happen to backburner to fit those needs?" and "Is backburner the best solution going forward?".  

[Pyro777]

Eddie,

Thanks for your reply. You were correct in saying there is cynicism concerning MAX's future. It's really nice to hear that there is renewed engery toward it's development. If I could give you some advice...fire your marketing and social media people and hire a small team that makes the relationship between Autodesk and its jaded user base more transparent. (LOL, not the type of transparency our Commander in Chief said he would accomplish)

The users need some glimpses that show your comments are serious.

...Just my thoughts.

Dean

[jon]

 As a part of that effort, the development team is looking into "game changing" ways to approach rendering and trying to come up with better slutions to the experience. 

Thanks for your reply, Eddie.

I imagine you've already done so, but please take a long, hard look at the way Deadline handles things:

• No Manager node to be a point of failure - jobs are managed through control files written to the file server.

• Much more flexibility to change job parameters from the render queue rather than resubmit a whole scene.  As an example, I recently had to render 5 different cameras in a scene that I was rendering at a service bureau overseas.  The camera change plus a couple of render setting changes required that I resubmit my 500MB max file across the Atlantic 5 times, at 45 minutes a pop.  In the past I have worked at a studio where the render farm was at another site and accessible via VPN, with very similar frustration.

Also, auto-propagation of assets and plugins would be VERY useful.

And better error messages (at least let Queue monitor put line breaks in error messages and not truncate them at some character limit!)

[samab]

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@EddiePerlberg wrote:

A) BB IS being developed further. As Vishnu stated earlier in this thread, the issues heard here and from others, are being escalated to create a better backburner experience for the near future.

---

That is encouraging to hear. I'm guessing there has been a change in policy regarding BB. I distinctly recall it being stated that it was getting no further development regarding features, only bug fixes, as it wasn't seen as a priority.

I still use an old version 2008.1.1 I find the older versions are the most stable. I see a lot of people with problems with the newer versions.

For my it does the job in a reliable way, but it could be better, more efficient and smarter.

[dbhinnant]

Another thing that needs to be admitted/addressed is the usage of random ports for network communication.  If Backburner will not run on a tightly managed firewall with only the ports Autodesk identifies.

http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/3ds-Max-3ds-Max-Design-General/Backburner-Does-anyone-really-know-the-...

We have seen failed attempts to communicate on ports from 45k all the way to 61k.  Our IT department balks at opening large ranges of ports like this.  I currently have a ticket open with Autodesk to nail down this range but based on past experience, I'm not confident.

[rotemlo]

Are the laughable BB 2014 bugs going to be addressed in a service pack ? We're upgrading (against our will really) to max 2014 and the BB update is really starting to be a PITA.

I think if you were serious about resolving these issues, you would file them under "urgent showstopping bugs" instead of "future verison feature requests". I also personally don't need you to rethink the entire net rendering concept and start developing something that you will give a beta version of in 3dsmax 2017, I need the bugs in your currently shipping product fixed!

Thank you.

[rotemlo]

Reading this a few hours after writing it, and in less of a rage storm, I'm sorry for sounding harsh and offensive. I wish there was an edit button on these forums. My underlying point still stands though.

[dbhinnant]

No apology necessary.  Backburner adds weeks, sometimes months to our upgrade time every year.

[Steve_Curley]

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I wish there was an edit button on these forums

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There is, but it's time-limited. 30 mins after posting, or if the thread receives another reply, whichever comes first.

[dbhinnant]

18 months later and no significant changes.  What happened to the renewed focus?

[jens.diemer]

Now is see that the start post is from 15-10-2013

[jneilon]

Has anyone tried Max 2016 Backburner? Does it have any new features or bugs worked out?

[Unlisted.co]

Wow,

  This is an old article.. so much for renewed vigour fixing some VERY basic backburner issues. I've been using backburner 2016 lately and you still cannot change any any job settings without all your servers dropping the job.. this is really, really poor.. especially if you are just doing it to stop your machines rerendering frames that are no longer required. As mentioned, you would think this sort of basic functionality should be high priority on a to fix list.. not a sometime in the next 10 years fix list. It means the servers have to reload any alembic/cache files or texture maps again which can be a huge slow down in the simulation area or with anything using hires textures and displacement maps. I am using a 7gig alembic file in my current job.. and this has cost me hours of render time.

Please fix this software so it is at least functional.. maybe even a right click mark as complete when selecting frames would solve a lot of problems.

Kind Regards,

Nathan.

[dbhinnant]

It's painfully obvious that we are stuck with Backburner as it is (if we are lucky and it doesn't go away altogether).  Now that 3ds Max no longer ships with a render engine that allows for network rendering it seems even more unlikely that any effort will be put into this.

That being said, no harm can come from casting your vote and comments to the "Replace Backburner" idea linked below.  Overhauling Backburner was one of the top voted requests on the previous Autodesk vote gathering systems though, so breath not being held.  🙂

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/3ds-max-ideas/replace-backburner/idi-p/6788444