MAX Material vs Unreal

[quinnredshift]

Are there any materials that have exactly a 1:1 correspondence with the material/maps in Unreal? Maybe a plug-in or something?

It would really help my workflow because right now, using MAX is requiring way too much cheating.

Honestly, more and more, MAX's limitations are really starting to get in my way; I've been using it for ages, but it's really getting into the area of diminishing returns. It seems like every time I try to do anything anymore, there is some reason MAX just can't manage it, some dealbreaker thing MAX can't do or can only do a certain way, so many incompatibilities between MAX and other commonly-used art programs...

The absolute lack of support and the bugs, quirks, and QoL problems that go unaddressed for years...what am I even paying for, really?

[Casey_H_]

Have you tried the Datasmith - Unreal Engine translator plug-in?
 

[quinnredshift]

I did not. I went looking for a plugin like that and came up empty.

So...a 'thank you' might be in order, here. 🙂 
EDIT: Or...maybe not. This doesn't seem to do what I'm asking for, actually. This is for conversion, when what I'm looking for is equivalence within MAX's material editor, a MAX material that has all of--and only--the same map slots as what Unreal is expecting. To take the kludgeyness and compromise out of the process.

[JasonLuckett]

I couldn't agree more with this sentiment, truly outrageous software.

[CAMedeck]

You could purchase V-Ray for both 3ds Max and Unreal Engine.  Then materials would be pretty much seamless when switching back and forth.  But I'm sure that's not the answer you're looking for.

Otherwise, this.  You're working with two unique applications that are designed for different tasks.  Yes, they both can generate 3d images and animations, but they do so in very different ways.  To expect one to completely mimic another in one aspect is asking quite a bit more than you seem to understand.

UE materials have many of the same slots for textures that 3ds Max can, but some that wouldn't make sense in Max.  The opposite is also true.

It may help if you explain in more detail what it is you would like to see, and why.  Where does Datasmith fall short, and what kind of 'cheating' are you doing in Max to get the results you hope to see?

Using Datasmith as a conversion between UE and other software is a widely accepted workflow, and it does a very good job at translating models and materials into a language that Unreal Engine can understand.  If this isn't working, can you explain why?

[quinnredshift]

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@CAMedeck wrote:

Otherwise, this.  You're working with two unique applications that are designed for different tasks.  Yes, they both can generate 3d images and animations, but they do so in very different ways.  To expect one to completely mimic another in one aspect is asking quite a bit more than you seem to understand.

Yeah, I really don't see it that way at all.

3DS MAX does 3D modeling/texturing/rigging, something all game engines need and precious few do natively; the notion that people won't use any and all 3D packages for this purpose, and that it's not reasonable to expect some equivalence between platforms--materials, built-in or plugins, specifically made for ease of export to a game engine, be it Unreal or Unity--is a notion I find quite bizarre.

In a world of of mods and plugins and patches, you'd think someone would have home-made this--and it would be on a site someone here could point me to, perhaps--if Autodesk didn't realize it'd actually be a good idea to have a Unity or Unreal material available to their users to attract people to MAX as a platform for modeling and rigging...

This seems like the most common-sense, real-world, who-wouldn't-want-that kinda thing, and I'm genuinely boggled that it isn't so naturally sensical to you, as well.

[CAMedeck]

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@quinnredshift wrote:

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In a world of of mods and plugins and patches, you'd think someone would have home-made this--and it would be on a site someone here could point me to, perhaps--if Autodesk didn't realize it'd actually be a good idea to have a Unity or Unreal material available to their users to attract people to MAX as a platform for modeling and rigging...

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Since it is likely you're not the first person to wish for exact material compatibility between the two applications, and that no one has created something that is, I can only assume at this time that it is not easy to accomplish.  Perhaps the use of translators is sufficient enough that no one feels the need to invest time in a completely new material for Max.

Just thinking out loud here... for a material to display the same in both 3ds Max and Unreal Engine, I would think they would need to share the same rendering engine.  

I'd still like to hear your explanation of why Datasmith, or something like that, is not good enough.  Is it lacking something?

To be honest, almost all materials I've seen in Max, regardless of render engine, have been comprised of some of the basic elements found in Unreal Engine materials.  Diffuse, Color, Albedo; Bump, Normal; Reflection, Specular; Glossiness; etc.  As far as I've seen, most of those get pretty well translated across platforms.

[quinnredshift]

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@CAMedeck wrote:

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@quinnredshift wrote:

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In a world of of mods and plugins and patches, you'd think someone would have home-made this--and it would be on a site someone here could point me to, perhaps--if Autodesk didn't realize it'd actually be a good idea to have a Unity or Unreal material available to their users to attract people to MAX as a platform for modeling and rigging...

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Since it is likely you're not the first person to wish for exact material compatibility between the two applications, and that no one has created something that is...

 ...I never said anybody hasn't.

I said I came here to ask.

I also didn't say I've given up yet.

Sometimes, people drop into these threads and go, "Yo, I wanted the same thing. It was hard to find, but...here'z a Dropbox link!" or something. It's happened.

In a world of Debbie Downers, I've chosen to be a Bethamphetamine. 

And, frankly, I don't really feel like explaining why something isn't good enough to someone else who seems hostile to the entire enterprise from the start.

[Casey_H_]

🤣

[CAMedeck]

I'm sorry you took my responses as 'hostile'.  

My intent was to gather more information about your question, which would help the community better understand your needs and therefore increase the chance of providing a solution.  I also included my opinions as to why I thought there was a low likelihood of finding exactly what you asked for, which I hoped could help lead to an acceptable comprimise.

Apologies that I couldn't be more help.

[quinnredshift]

What I'm looking for is just some basic QoL.

I'm looking to streamline my workflow and, honestly, reduce the frustration of having to remember which map slots correspond to which from platform to platform.

I mean, I can remember that most game engines call the Diffuse map slot "Albedo". But the more I start texturing this model, the more I realize that some slots are just plain missing between platforms while others have different names between platforms.

And some function a little differently.

But even so, just the comfort of knowing that, yes, you've put that map in the right map slot if you're gonna do certain things in MAX and outside it, maybe do things that jump from platform to platform for whatever reason--I've had all of these things happen during projects, where the pipeline doesn't stay a straight line as revisions become necessary--and thus having a material in MAX where the map slots correspond to what you'll be doing in something like Unreal or Unity...I mean, it seems like the most basic thing in the world, making MAX more friendly to being used in conjunction with popular game engines, and thus, tailoring a few materials specifically to be used across platforms.

I mean, much as it scares the pants off of me to start from scratch with something new, like switching to Blender, every bit of advice I get when I ask for help outside of MAX forums is, "Switch to Blender."

And, dammit, I don't wanna. But the more I try to stick to MAX, the more I have to cheat to accomplish my goals, while people tell me about other platforms that have adapted to include the kinds of things I'm asking for. The resistance I find from Autodesk to making basic changes or fixing bugs--often on-going, years-long complaints with no fix--is absolutely baffling to me.