Max 2018 : vertex selection error

[jeff]

Anyone else experienced this in 2018: I'm working on an editable poly, and after a bit, I can't select some of the vertices in the model. The problem is most evident trying to select single verts; it's like they aren't even there - no highlight, no cursor change, no ability to select. Not select & move, not select & scale, not even just select. A perhaps telling factor is if I zoom out some and drag a large rectangle selection, I do get a vertex selection. But I still can't always select an individual vertex. Seems to happen after about 30 minutes of modeling.
My scene scale is OK. Exporting to 2016 lets me edit with no issues found. I'm using the most recent stable version of graphics driver (nVidia Quadro).

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @jeff,

I have only seen this once before and the cause was a corrupted Windows user profile.  Can you try creating a new user in Windows and see if the problem resolves?  As a secondary suggestion you might try resetting your user settings in Max 2018.  Can you please try those things for me?

Best Regards,

[jeff]

Thanks for the suggestions -- I will report back & let you know.

-Jeff

[jeff]

Resetting didn't help, BUT: I think it is something peculiar to the mesh I was working on.
I can't reproduce the error with other polymeshes, but I can quickly get to the error with the "trouble" mesh. I think I may be able to purge the weirdness by export/import; going out to OBJ format and back in can often solve mesh oddities. Thanks again for the input, and I'll follow up if I find anything definitive.

[bob.bernstein]

I saw an oddity recently as I tried to help a user on the forums.  I was doing a screencast, so I can share the events with you all if it helps.  

Unfortunately, I spent some time on this screencast deciding what to do, and my HONEYDO list stopped me from re-doing it more smoothly, so If you want to see an issue with vertex selection in 2018 you have to wade through a few minutes of other stuff.

Starting at 9:19, I decide to move some verts, but they won't display the red color as selected.  You'll see me look around for a reason, then at one point (9:41) I decide to drag them (as if they were selected) and they MOVED, but not just what I had "selected" but they moved as if soft selection was on....you'll see my go to softselection to turn it off if it got turned on by mistake.  But it wasn't on.  

So this shows the oddity in both selection color showing up, and an oddity about selection itself.  

[bob.bernstein]

And a subscript to my last post...the scene belongs to a user and the stack came with a couple edit poly modifiers on the stack.  I didn't investigate those modifiers, perhaps one of them left some verts selected or something like that.  

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @jeff,

Thank you for the update.  If there is a problem with the model, I can investigate and log the issue if you'd like.  I am happy to do so, might relate to a Max problem or possibly an error in the model that came from another program.  If you'd like me to create a private folder for you I am happy to do so.  Please note I'll be out of office until July 10th after today, so if I don't reply quickly that is why.  I'll reply ASAP when I get back if I have a message waiting, and thanks.

@bob.bernstein,

I did notice in that video that you have a turbosmooth that is currently on and "Show End Result" toggled.  In that case, your verts wouldn't light up like normal.  Do you know if the problem was related to that?  Do you only use Render iterations or were there viewport iterations?  If there were viewport iterations, then that is likely the cause of that particular issue.  Thanks for the info and for posting that @bob.bernstein, you are really helpful and I'm grateful you're a part of this community. 

Best Regards,

[bob.bernstein]

good catch...did leave the preview toggle on....no doubt that's the issue.  

<<Do you only use Render iterations or were there viewport iterations?>>

Not sure what this question means.

[jeff · Accepted solution]

I solved the issue with my model by exporting the base mesh (below the Symmetry and TurboSmooth modifiers) as an OBJ file, then importing the resulting OBJ. I also rotated the base mesh elements so the applied Symmetry modifier did not require "flip" to be checked (I suspect that contributed).
No issues now. One note: the model did not exhibit any issues in Max 2016 (I saved as to go back to that version), so there may be something odd lurking in 2018. The modifier stack for both models (problematic and cleaned) is: Editable Poly > Symmetry > TurboSmooth.

FYI: the export -> import trick has cleaned up other mesh problems in the past.

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @jeff,

Nice work and thanks for the update.  I wonder, any chance I could take a look at the offending mesh/file?  I could create a private folder for you if you'd like.  If there's an issue to be logged I'll happily do so, or maybe I can help explain what was happening.  Either way, nice job and thanks for posting your solution.

Best Regards,

[jeff]

Happy to post the problem file. Just let me know where.
thx,
Jeff

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Thank you @jeff!  I have set up a private folder for you if you'd like to upload your files there. You should get an email about it shortly, and if you don't see it please check your SPAM folder. These files are private and will not be shared with anyone but yourself and the support staff. Please let me know if you have any questions. Please use at least an 8 character password or the Box account may not work properly.

Best Regards,

[jeff]

I posted 2 files that should exhibit problems. I couldn't make either "fail" immediately (of course!), but please look through them if you like.

If I did not mention, my suspicion was with the Symmetry operator that had "flip" turned on, while using 'ignore backface' in the underlying editable poly.

thanks for you attention & help,

Jeff

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Thank you for the upload.  I do have a couple questions, and thanks for answering them. 

1) Were you always working on the outside of the model when you were using Ignore Backfacing?  If working on the inside, that would prevent verts from being selected. 

2)  Were the modifiers that were enabled the Symmetry + Turbosmooth?  (Or were they all disabled as the files were saved out?)

3) Were you using "Show End Result"?  What about the orange cage, was that always enabled?  

4) Was Ignore Backfacing enabled on the bottom level or in the Mesh Select?  

Thanks for the information!

Best Regards,

[jeff]

To the best of my recollection...

1) Were you always working on the outside of the model when you were
using Ignore Backfacing? If working on the inside, that would prevent
verts from being selected.
Yes, always working on the "outside"

2) Were the modifiers that were enabled the Symmetry + Turbosmooth?
(Or were they all disabled as the files were saved out?)
Sometimes enabled, sometimes not. As best I recall, this did not affect
the selection issue either way.

3) Were you using "Show End Result"? What about the orange cage, was
that always enabled?
Sometimes enabled, sometimes not. As best I recall, this did not affect
the selection issue either way.

4) Was Ignore Backfacing enabled on the bottom level or in the Mesh Select?
Ignore Backfacing was onlyh enabled at the bottom Edit Poly. As best I
recall, Mesh Select was not a factor in the selection issue either way.

Thanks - I know it's not very specific info, but I hope it helps the team.

-Jeff

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Thanks for the information @jeff.  I do appreciate it.  

I'm not able to repro it unfortunately.  I do believe it's happening though.  However without repro steps it won't make it past QA.  Can you please see if over time you can identify what steps lead to the issue?  If so, I can log it and I'm happy to do so.   I'll keep trying to make this happen in the interim.  

In the meanwhile, updating your graphics drivers may be a good idea if you haven't done so already.  Thanks!

Best Regards,

[jeff]

That's OK -- I understand about the reproducible requirement.
I'll see if I can find a version of the model that reliably exhibits the
issue; might have to check my backup files.

thanks,
Jeff

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Thank you so much @jeff.

Best Regards,

[Anonymous]

I have also had this issue with several files. If the file is converted to editable mesh and then back to editable poly seems to resolve the issue.

Hope this helps.

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[Anonymous]

Thanks Alfred, 

I've been having this problem a lot. I'm working in Edit Poly with no modifiers on the stack. Verts that are neither hidden nor frozen become unselectable. Converting to Edit mesh and then back to edit poly is faster and creates less trash files for me, though it can be troubling. Thanks for the suggestion.