Max 2017 Xref wont open. Opens fine in Max 2016.

jneilon · ‎03-28-2017

I am experiencing an odd issue which seems to pop up once in a while:

Xref the attached X_test.max into new scene file (this part works fine)

Save Scene file

Close Scene file

Open new Scene file that has the X_test xref'd in.

Opening the scene file takes a very long time or just hangs.

The X_test file opens quickly when directly opening not Xref'd. Alternatively, I can open the Scene file in max 2016 without issue.

I have tried it on multiple machines with Nitrous Direct3D 11 and Direct3D 9

The scene file seems to speed up the more objects that are deleted so I think it could be a instance issue related to number of geometry. I of course will be collapsing all the geometry together to fix the issue but It is odd that directly opening and using max 2016 is fine.

jneilon · ‎03-28-2017

After making a few tests. I found Making instance groups of 2-3 instance types of aprx. 2000 elements will open fine vs 10-20 instance types of apx. 2000 elements will bog down and not open.

The issue is how Max handles these large instances. 2016 seems to handle these scenario's fine while 2017 does not.

Let me know if anyone has the same issue.

Alfred.DeFlaminis · ‎04-03-2017

Hello @jneilon,

I do have an issue logged in the tracker about slow XRef save and load times. This issue is being tested currently and should be addressed in a future update. There is an issue with error handling in this case which needs to be addressed. There are a couple things that can help reduce the issue here. In most cases re-making the XRef connections in 2017 will speed up the load in 2017 by about 66%. There are some other things that can be done listed below, but in the end this needs to be addressed on the development side. Below is our official info for the time being about this.

Plugins used for 3ds Max 2016 need to have been recompiled by the manufacturer for Max 2017. This is due to the SDK change from 3ds Max 2016 to 2017.
Re-path assets so all file paths have been resolved or are using UNC pathing.
Keep bitmap paths/directories under the 256 Windows character limit. Shorter file paths will resolve faster, as there are less characters in the path to inspect upon reload.
Set Unit scales to be congruent with older versions. (Note: When a file with a mis-matched Unit scale is opened, a dialog will appear asking to scale the scene to match the System Units for that Max version being used. Additionally, there is an option to keep the Unit setup from the original file.)
Slowdowns in loading older 3ds Max scenes (2016 and before) which use XRefs is a known issue, and is currently being resolved by Development. (See Internal Notes below.)

Best Regards,

jneilon · ‎04-03-2017

Thanks Alfred,

To follow up on this. The file was made in 2017 first then saved down to 2016 for testing. So the 66% increase does not apply here.

There really isn't any plugins being used for the file. There is Vray loaded as a render engine but I am not rendering just opening a file. It is pure geometry.

Follow up on your suggestions:

Not using any plugins for the geometry.
UNC pathing is being used.
All paths are fine you can test the file yourself on a C: There is no bitmaps being used.
Again I started the file in 2017. Units are the same in both tests. The issue is in 2017.
Again not a 2016 file. Fresh 2017 file.

I logged it as a defect to Autodesk. I am hoping to have this resolved at one point since the only real solution is to collapse all the geometry or switch back to 2016 and use the geometry as is.

Alfred.DeFlaminis · ‎04-03-2017

Ah I see @jneilon, thanks for the clarification. This issue has been raised internally (by me) and is already being worked on. I don't have access or permission to share release dates but it is being worked on with the highest priority. I have personally spent days testing and cataloging information about this issue so I really have a lot of time invested in this issue and I want to see it resolved asap. Those files should open eventually in 2017, but they take an overly long time in some cases.

Best Regards,

jneilon · ‎04-04-2017

Excellent thanks Alfred. It is a bit of tricky issue to diagnose on my end so I am sure it is at Autodesk.

Thanks again for looking at this.

Alfred.DeFlaminis · ‎04-04-2017

Hello @jneilon,

If you'd like I can create a private folder for you and try to solve this issue in 2017. At the very least it may give me more info to add to the tracker case. If that's not an option, no worries but I want you to know I'll do anything in my power to help whenever I can. Thanks!

Best Regards,

jneilon · ‎04-05-2017

Hi Alfred,

When I have time I can help resolve the issue. Private folder is fine.

Jon

Alfred.DeFlaminis · ‎04-07-2017

Thank you very much @jneilon, that's great!

I have set up a private folder for you if you'd like to upload your files there. You should get an email about it shortly, and if you don't see it please check your SPAM folder. These files are private and will not be shared with anyone but yourself and the support staff. Please let me know if you have any questions. Please use at least an 8 character password or the Box account may not work properly.

Best Regards,

jneilon · ‎04-10-2017

Thanks. I uploaded the files I have been testing along with a text file explaining a bit further.

Feel free to rearrange the files.

Thanks,
Jon

Alfred.DeFlaminis · ‎04-12-2017

Hello @jneilon,

Thanks very much for the files and the text file description. For me this does open in 2017 but it takes a little while. I've tested every file in the Box and had the same result. Do any of these files in the Box work for you when you XRef them? (Or is it just the X_Test versions that don't?)

How long will Max hang when you try to XRef these? (Forever?) Do you get the same result if the file is on your desktop vs. a network? If you rename your enu folder (so you can get it back if this test fails) and then reset your user settings, does that help at all? Thanks for the information.

I noticed you have a version where the objects are all attached, I wonder if this hangs on you as well. I think that the best workflow would be something in between all attached and the 7000 objects (for 65k quads). Generally speaking, I don't recommend having more than 8k objects in a scene and I advise people to start to attach things at that point usually. I would look at making each window an object, or maybe floors of windows. Instancing them is fine of course, but I do think this is a lot of objects for such a simple scene.

Best Regards,

Alfred.DeFlaminis · ‎04-14-2017

Hello @jneilon,

I just wanted to follow up here, any progress on this issue? I tested them in 2018 and it opened in about 1.5 seconds.

Best Regards,

jneilon · ‎04-21-2017

Sorry Alfred it's been a busy week.

X_Test_2017 takes about 60 secs (Local and on Network) Opening the file directly takes 1 sec.

X_Test_2016 takes 1 sec (Same file as above but in Max 2016)

X_Test_2017_collapsed 1 sec

X_Test_2017_collapsedKeepingInstances 4 secs

I did this on a fresh machine and other workstations. All result with the same issue.

Yes, optimizing the scene would work fine. This is just a typical file I would receive from a client. Normally we would optimize everything but it is difficult when the file will not open when xref'd. I can open the file directly which takes about 1 sec. 2016 opens the file in 1 sec as well.

Glad that they fixed the issue in Max 2018, I will test it out when I get a chance and confirm.

Unfortunately our office does not update to new releases until the first service pack is out or others confirm stability. Too many bad experiences with early releases 😞

Alfred.DeFlaminis · ‎04-21-2017

Hello @jneilon,

I'm glad it is opening, that's a better situation than it won't open at all. This is a pain of an issue and I logged this slow open of XRef's personally into the tracker a couple months ago. It made it into 2018 before release but the 2017 fix isn't in yet. In the meanwhile attaching could help a bit, but as you've said it can be an issue if a client is sending updated files on the regular.

I'm going to add this thread to the tracker for this issue so when the fix is released I can update this thread for you and let you know. For the time being that's the best I can do.

Best Regards,

jneilon · ‎04-21-2017

Thanks. It is opening although this is a sample of a larger scene that will exponentially take longer to open.

That's great, looking forward to the update.

Alfred.DeFlaminis · ‎06-15-2017

Hello @jneilon,

3ds Max 2017 Update 2 launched today which includes a fix for this issue. As promised, I am here to let you know about it. More information here. Thanks!

Best Regards,

jneilon · ‎06-22-2017

Thanks Alfred for following through on this. It is very much appreciated. It is working just great.

Minor thing we noticed the under About Autodesk Product Information / About 3dsMax / Product Version is not updated. It appears to be stuck on V19.0 for Max 2017. It should read V19.2

It is a bit hard to see if a max deployment has worked or not without going to add/remove and seeing what is installed..

Alfred.DeFlaminis · ‎06-22-2017

I'm glad to hear that things are going more smoothly @jneilon, that's great news.

I'll do my best to help with versioning. The easiest way to get version information is to look at the Product Version in the Properties->Details of the 3dsmax.exe. To access this from MaxScript use:

getFileVersion "$max/3dsmax.exe"

A breakdown of Max versions is below, I hope it's helpful: (FCS = First Customer Ship)

Release: 3ds Max 2018 | 20
Build: 20.0.0.966 | 20.0.0.966 FCS
Build: 20.1.0.1452 | 20.1.0.1452 Update 1

Best Regards,

Community

Max 2017 Xref wont open. Opens fine in Max 2016.

Max 2017 Xref wont open. Opens fine in Max 2016.

Max 2017 Xref wont open. Opens fine in Max 2016.