Manage Scene States stops working when I install vray

[pr0eXeler0]

Can someone with max 2015 / 2016 confirm this?

If I install vray, Tools/Manage Scene States stops working, the dialogue does not come up at all. Reseting GUI does nothing, uninstalling vray however fixes this. I checked with my collegues, and I can confirm this to be true on at least 4 installations. Seems like an obvious bug, but I'd like to have some outside confirmations.

[pr0eXeler0]

I should add; if I create a scene in a max installation without vray and create scene states and then open this scene in a max with vray, Scene States dialog will now work.

[Dan.Sambell]

I too am experiencing this exact issue with 3ds Max 2016 SP4 and the latest version of V-Ray Adv 3.60.03. If I uninstall V-Ray then clicking on "Manage Scene States..." works again. When I re-install V-Ray, clicking on "Manage Scene States..." does nothing. I have done a complete uninstall and manual clean-up of all traces of 3ds Max 2016 and still no luck. 

Did you end up solving the issue pr0eXeler0?

As you have mentioned, if I create a scene in 3ds Max 2016 without V-Ray installed and add some scene states I am able to open Scene States from these files only when installing V-Ray again. However creating Scene States from a fresh file resulting in no dialog appearing again.

Cheers Biznitch

[pr0eXeler0]

Well, I'm no longer on max 2016 but in max 2017 SP3, Tools / Manage Scene States dialogue still does nothing...

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @pr0eXeler0 and @Dan.Sambell,

I have an article here that has some of the main reasons this can happen.  The article is a bit strange to follow, the numbers under solutions are not steps, but 5 different possible reasons for the problem.  (Just to clarify.)

In my experience the problem is usually a Wacom tablet or 3D mouse which as drivers which conflict with the scene states dialog.  Here is a quote from another thread I worked on last year with this issue.

"Uninstalled 3dconnexion driver and the scene manager works; reinstalled their latest driver and it stopped working.

3DxStudio.ms script auto-runs on session start up from C:\ProgramData\Autodesk\ApplicationPlugins\3DxStudio.bundle\Contents\scripts. Deleting or moving it means it doesn't run on start up, the scene state manager works and the 3Dconnexion mouse doesn't work.

I tried moving it to C:\Program Files\Autodesk\3ds Max 2017\scripts\Startup but same thing happens.

The workaround for me was to move the script to the C:\Program Files\Autodesk\3ds Max 2017\scripts folder so it DOESN'T auto run, but is easy to run manually from the default script folder after session start up.

The 3d mouse and the scene state manager both now work for me! Simultaneously!! I'll probably see about making a custom button so it's just one click, until such time as the bug is fixed by whoever it belongs to."

This might be worth trying, please let me know how it goes. 

Best Regards,

[Dan.Sambell]

Hi Alfred,

Thanks very much for your reply. Unfortunately I had already read through the previous posts you mentioned and as I do not have a Wacom tablet or 3D Mouse installed, those files are not present on my PC that would cause this issue.

If definitely seems related to V-Ray as when I remove it, the Scene States dialog works but as soon as I install it again, clicking on "Manage Scene States..." stops working again.

Perhaps there is a similar V-Ray specific auto-run maxscript that is causing the issue?

Biznitch

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @Dan.Sambell,

It's possible but I'm not in a good position to say for sure.  I know that Chaosgroup has excellent support so the best move might be to report it to them.  My best suggestion is to talk to Chaosgroup about it for the time being.  If they come back and say that it's happening due to a problem in Max, please post the text and then I will log it.

Best Regards,

[Dan.Sambell]

Hi Alfred,

To give you a bit more background as to the issue we are having, I have prepared the following.

As part of our primary production workflow we frequently use Scene States in 3ds Max to automatically manage different sequences within our scenes. Recently we have been experiencing an issue on over half of our 3ds Max / V-Ray workstations whereby the "Manage Scene States..." dialog is inaccessible when starting a new scene. If we uninstall V-Ray on these affected machines the "Manage Scene States..." dialog is accessible again.

In order to ensure no other scripts or plugins could be causing this issue we installed a fresh copy of 3ds Max 2016 and 2018 on a clean Windows 10 system and tested the "Manage Scene States..." function in new scenes as well as previous ones.

We then installed V-Ray 3.60.03 for both 3ds Max 2016 and 2018 and immediately "Manage Scene States..." stopped working in new scenes. Older scenes that were saved previously that have existing Scene States are still accessible however accessing the "Manage Scene States..." dialog in new scenes ceases to work.

Are you able to suggest any workarounds or ways to fix this issue? I have also contacted ChaosGroup as suggested.

Any additional help you can provide would be greatly appreciated. Please let me know if you need more information in order to assist.

The systems we are using all have the following:

3ds Max 2016 SP4

3ds Max 2018 Update 1

V-Ray for 3ds Max 3.50.04 (we have tested this version on 3ds Max 2016)

V-Ray for 3ds Max 3.60.03 (we have tested this version on 3ds Max 2016 and 3ds Max 2018)

Windows 10 Pro

Kind regards,

Biznitch

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Thank you for the write up @Dan.Sambell.  Let's try a few things.  

When I test 2016 and 2018 on W10 and on W7 I am not seeing the problem.  It opens normally.  There may be something else happening here.  I'd like to verify that you already tried to reset your user settings and workspace settings as well as unplugged any 4K monitors (as a test).  I realize you read the article, just making sure you did try those things.  Thanks for the confirmation! 

1. It may be that Vray is just conflicting with another script and causing the problem.  Can you please list some of the other scripts and plugins you are using?  Would you please attach a simple scene to a forum post so I can check to see if somehow that affects it on my end.  The scene can be a simple teapot or whatever, just something that was created on the copy of Max which had the issue.  I'm not sure if that will work but I want to try everything.  
   
   
2. If you paste this command in the listener and run it, does it come up that way?  
   actionMan.executeAction -1682387772 "4112"  -- Scene State: Scene State Manager Dialog Toggle
   
   
3. Sometimes Windows user profiles can get corrupted.  If you log in as another user (or have a coworker log into your machine) does it work then? 
   
   
4. Lastly, I wonder if somehow the window appears off screen for some reason. Can you please try the following steps for me as a test?  

• 1) Open the scene state manager  (Tools -> Manage Scene States)
• 2) Press Alt + Spacebar
• 3) Press M
• 4) Press the down arrow
• 5) Move the mouse around.  Is the menu following or showing up there now?  Thanks for trying that.

Best Regards,

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @pr0eXeler0 and @Dan.Sambell,

I just wanted to follow up here, any thoughts on my previous post? Thanks for the update!

Best Regards,

[Dan.Sambell]

Hi Alfred,

Thanks again for following up on this issue we are still experiencing. Your ongoing assistance is greatly appreciated.

As mentioned previously, the systems that are experiencing the issue do not have a Wacom tablet or 3D mouse attached nor have they ever had one installed. I have tripled checked there is no 3dconnexion related folders under this location:

C:\ProgramData\Autodesk\ApplicationPlugins\

The only folders present in the folder above are:

AutoCAD2017Addin.bundle

Autodesk AcPerfMon.Bundle

I have tried the following steps to try and fix the issue on the affected systems:

• After your suggestion I tried logging to Windows under a completely new user account that has never been used on that PC previously
  • Under the new user when I first run 3ds Max 2016 or 2018 (with V-Ray 3.60.03 installed), "Manage Scene States..." dialog displays. This is in a completely new file, not loading from a saved file and also not saving the current file. Just a blank scene when 3ds Max is first loaded. Also the tick indicator next to the "Manage Scene States..." menu listing under the "Tools" menu is present to indicate that "Manage Scene States..." is open/displayed.
  • When I reboot and log back in as that same user and run 3ds Max 2016 or 2018 again, "Manage Scene States..." dialog no longer pops-up and the tick indicator next to the "Manage Scene States..." menu listing under the "Tools" menu is not present.

• No additional scripts or plugins beyond V-Ray have been installed

• I have tried uninstalling all versions of 3ds Max and V-Ray and manually deleting all the following folders:
  • C:\Users\user.name\AppData\Local\Autodesk\3dsMax
  • C:\Users\user.name\AppData\Roaming\Autodesk\3ds Max
  • C:\Users\user.name\AppData\Roaming\Autodesk\3DSMAX
  • D:\Users\user.name\Documents\3dsMax
  • C:\ProgramData\Autodesk\3DSMAX
  • C:\ProgramData\Autodesk\3dsMax 2016
  • C:\ProgramData\Autodesk\3dsMax 2018
  • C:\Program Files\Autodesk\3ds Max 2016
  • C:\Program Files\Autodesk\3ds Max 2018
  • C:\Program Files (x86)\Autodesk\Backburner
  • C:\Program Files\Chaos Group

• Upon reinstalling 3ds Max and V-Ray and experiencing the "Manage Scene States..." dialog load issue I have also tried deleting the following folders to let 3ds Max rebuild them upon reload to see if that would fix the issue:
  • C:\Users\user.name\AppData\Local\Autodesk\3dsMax\2016 - 64bit\ENU
  • C:\Users\user.name\AppData\Local\Autodesk\3dsMax\2018 - 64bit\ENU
  • D:\Users\user.name\Documents\3dsMax

• I have tried pasting "actionMan.executeAction -1682387772 "4112"  -- Scene State: Scene State Manager Dialog Toggle" into listener and although it returns "true" no "Manage Scene States..." dialog is displayed nor is the tick indicator displayed next to the "Manage Scene States..." menu listing under the "Tools" menu

• I have tried pressing "Alt + Spacebar" and then hitting the "M" key and then using the "arrow" keys without any success. It definitely appears as though the dialog is not appearing off-screen, it simply doesn't load.

• I have tried manually creating Scene States through MaxScript using sceneStateMgr.Capture however on the affected systems this seems to do nothing. On the PC's not experiencing this issue, this method works as expected.

Could the issue I am experiencing be a result from my having my Windows "Documents" folder located on D drive instead of C drive?

• D:\Users\user.name\Documents\3dsMax

This seems unlikely but I thought I would ask the question (although it occurs on a few other PC's that have their "Documents" folder located on C drive)

Could it be a strange Windows folder or file permission issue that is causing the "Manage Scene States..." dialog to not load/display.

In order to further help track down the cause of the issue can you please let me know what files/plugins/scrips are referenced/accessed when selecting "Manage Scene States..." so I can verify they have adequate permissions to read/write etc.

I have also attached a MAX file that I have saved out based from the effected system however when loading the attached file on a system that does not have the issue, the "Manage Scene States..." dialog displays as expected.

If you have any more suggestions for me to try based on the information above or any other information to pass on, please do so.

Kind Regards,

Biznitch

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @Dan.Sambell,

Very informative post, thank you.  I tested the file you attached with Vray installed and I did get the manage scene states window.  I can't imagine why Vray would interfere with this window so I have a bunch more questions and suggestions for you. 

I like your bullet points so I'll format my post that way too. 

• Understood about the 3d mouse or Wacom.  We can cross that off the list.
• It is strange that the manage scene states button worked the first time on a new user but not the second.  This may point toward permissions, but I'd think they would affect the first time as well as subsequent times.  So that's not making a lot of sense to me, though I totally believe you. 
• You checked the correct folders.  I don't see a problem with any of that.
• I also have my Documents set to 😧 both at home and at work, so that's not it. 
• Thanks for trying the Alt+Spacebar
• It could absolutely be a result of permissions or group policy settings.  
• I was able to bring up the window on your attached file.  

I don't have access to a list of all files referencing the scene state manager, but let's do some testing.  I have a few ideas, please give them a shot.

1. Please login as a user with admin rights or run as admin, does the Scene State Manager appear then?
2. If you open 3dsmax.ini, do you have an entry for SceneStateManageDialog?  If so, what does it say?  Does it match the computers where it's working?
3. I wonder if somehow the stdplug for scene states isn't loading.  SceneStateUtil.dlu  It may be worth checking your Windows Defender entries to see if this is whitelisted or not.   This article talks a bit about Windows Defender for a different issue, but the information is good.  
4. If you go to that file in (maxroot)/stdplugs and go to properties->Security... anything odd there?  
5. Any response from Chaosgroup?  (Just curious.)  
6. Does the plugin show as loaded in 3ds Max Plugin Manager?  
   

Best Regards,

[Dan.Sambell · Accepted solution]

Hi Alfred,

I have some good news to report. I have fixed the issue on all affected systems. How did I achieve this? Simply by following the first step in your latest post.

---

@Alfred.DeFlaminis wrote:

1. Please login as a user with admin rights or run as admin, does the Scene State Manager appear then?

Since the user accounts I had tried during my tests all had elevated permissions / complete admin rights I therefore did think it was necessary to try running the application as admin previously.
However, regardless of the active users account privileges I have found that after installing V-Ray I still need to run 3ds Max at least once with elevated permissions (run as admin) and allow it to fully load, then exit. It is important you exit 3ds Max after running it with elevated permissions because whilst this seems to enable the relevant required permissions but since 3ds Max did not have these permissions prior to launch, "Manage Scene States..." will not work until 3ds Max is closed and then launched again.
Then the next time a session of 3ds Max is run, of which you no longer to run with elevated permissions, you can now access the "Manage Scene States..." dialog.
For some reason the step of running 3ds Max as admin seems to permanently enable the appropriate permissions required to write/edit the associated files/folders related to the use of scene states.
I can only assume that this is perhaps a result of Windows 10 x64 and V-Ray interfering with the previously set permissions of the 3ds Max folders or files after/during the install process of V-Ray. I would also therefore assume scene states will break again after every future update install of V-Ray moving forward and would require the repeat process of running 3ds Max as admin once more.

Thank you very much for your time and effort in helping me track down the issue that was preventing "Manage Scene States.." from working properly in 3ds Max.

Hopefully this might help others in future that are also experiencing the same issue.

Kind regards,

Biznitch

[pr0eXeler0]

Good job, this solution worked for me too.

Not an easy bug to track down.

Cheers

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Thank you @Dan.Sambell for the detailed write up here, I really appreciate it.  I am going to add that comment to the tracker and then it will be added to the article about this.  Also, thank you very much for the confirmation @pr0eXeler0. 

I am very grateful for the teamwork and patience shown in this thread.  If I had a 'mega-kudo' you'd both be getting on right now.  Have a wonderful weekend and thanks again.

Best Regards,

[swenstyle]

HI, everyone

i solved the problem,
reset UI interface, include reset default renderer, Now scene state manager works fine. After that make again vray - renderer as default, and states manager work well in all new and existed scene.

[daniel]

The @Dan.Sambell solutions works also in 2018 🙂 Thanks a lot.

[vvvreality]

perfect, many thanks !

[picture_plane]

Thanks @swenstyle this suggestion worked for me.

[ganchev.dv]

and a short way, without reset UI - start MAX, assign mental ray renderer, set to default, close max, reopen max and give back vray for renderer, and ready to go.