Basic performance and UI problems still exist in 2019

[open-range]

Sheeeesh. Is it noticed by AutoDesk developers? Are they embarrassed by such basic problems?

1) Dialog boxes do not have focus when opened. must be clicked on to make active and then second click to make whatever selection is desired. Super basic functionality used by all programs, broken in max.

2) AutoBak takes 5 times longer to save versus regular scene save. Makes having AutoBak enabled almost not usable. Why does it have to be like that?

3) Using poly modeling tools like edge sect and then chamfer. Using the floating tool boxes to adjust spinner values. mouse curser becomes double arrow, vertically oriented, to drag spinner values. that's as it should be. Problem - since at least 2017 - after completion/exit form poly model tool, mouse curser now remains as double arrow instead of reverting back to single arrow/pointer. this is apparent whenever the cursor is moved over a dialog box or on the menu bar. Annoying as all get out.

4)Posting these issues on this forum has been completely useless. no one seems to be listening, taking or note or caring about this at all.

[Anonymous]

1) They are aware of this issue, but didn`t get to it (yet).

2) Ist that the case? I don`t use Autobak so i can`t comment on that. Perhaps because you can interupt Autobak by using ESC key and they have to monitor this.Don`t know.

3) Doesn`t happen here. At least not with 2019.

4)  This is peer-to-peer, so this issues might be seen by dev and support or not. For example we got developer feedback on various issues here on the forum lately. For Bug-Reports there is still this.

[open-range]

Thank you for your response. I've been using 3DS since it was DOS based. I've used every version since R4.

2) AutoBak did not used to be sow painfully slow. Started 2017

3) Does not happen immediately with first edit, but sooner rather than later, after making enough sub poly edits using the little controls that pop up in the viewports to adjust spinners to change values for chamfer, bevel, extrude etc. At some point, after making enough edits, this will cause the mouse cursor to become a double arrow for the rest of the Max session. You must hover the cursor over the top menu bar or over the menu in a dialog box like the render dialog to see this. Very distracting and annoying. Have to re-start to make this go away. Also been happening since 2017 (the all time worst ever release). This cannot be happening only on my system.

[Anonymous]

2) I think 2017 was the first version to introduce user-interruptable Autobak. But i`m not sure. That would be a question for the 3dsmax core architect.

3) I`ve used 2018 extensively for modeling, so i think i would have noticed something like this. Does it happen only with caddys or legacy dialogs too?

[open-range]

Happens with the caddies and the legacy control panel dialogs and the ribbon tools.

I don't understand why the lack of focus on the dialog boxes problem has persisted thru 3 release + countless updates/service packs or whatever they call them now.

One thing that did seem to get fixed after 2017 and 2018. In 2019 the delete key seems to work all the time instead of intermittently.

5) the window crossing selection tool still does work consistently circa 2017.

Too many of the absolute most basic functionalities no longer work as they should. wtf?

[open-range]

5) edit window crossing selection does NOT work consistently

[Swordslayer]

2) There were a few solutions for this in the previous discussion, alternatively you can also try setting autoSave.BailoutEnabled = off in the Listener to disable the ESC interruption.

3) it might be, never had that happen and I used all the point releases and now I'm on 2019.1 - did you try updating you gfx card drivers?

5) I can only say the old usual 'never happened on my machine', though I use the auto window/crossing setting.

[open-range]

Thank you for your helpful reply Swordslayer.

2) I'm not sure about making all my user map paths relative to the project. I have not done that before and am gun shy regarding changing map and xref  paths. I will see if I can disable that autosave.Bailout.

3) I have the most current graphics driver. I have probably updated the nvidia graphics driver 10-20 times since this started happening and the problem remains. I tdoesn't keep me from working but it's distracting and annoying.

5) I'm not sure what the auto/window crossing is but I will check it out.

thanks again!

[open-range]

I would like to try using the Listener to set autoSave.BailoutEnabled=off. I am not familiar with using the Listener.

I enter autoSave.BailoutEnabled=off into the Listener and press Enter. It returns "false" in blue color. I try changing that to "true" but nothing seems to happen. How do I actually use the Listener to make this change? Thanks!

[hagen.deloss]

Hi @open-range

Thanks for posting on the forums! It looks like there are a few issues you are discussing here with @Anonymous and @Swordslayer. I would love to help out!

1. Could you elaborate on which dialog boxes you are experiencing this with?
2. How big is your file? I would suggest setting your auto save intervals at longer intervals. As it was explained to me, the reason it can take longer is because 3DS Max has to calculate in anticipation if you will hit the escape key and interrupt the auto backup, which makes it take a little longer to save out. If it is a dramatic amount of time, I can log this issue in our system for development to look into.
3. Can you perhaps share a screenshot of this behavior, and details on how dense your mesh is when it happens?
4. I can only speak for myself, but I care! Hahaha, I want to help, and it seem like @Anonymous and @Swordslayer want too as well. I'm sorry, these issues sound frustrating, I hope we can work through them together! 

I look forward to chatting with you about these features and the behavior you are encountering!

[open-range]

Thank you for your reply Hagen.

1)It happens for sure on the Render Dialog box and also the Render progress dialog box. Every time.

2)File is about 242 MB. i did set for a bit longer interval out of desperation but that is not what I would call a solution. It takes an order of 10 times longer for autoBak to save versus standard file>save. that can't be right and it didn't use to be that way. definitely log this issue in your system for development to look into.

Please see my question above regarding how I would use the Listener to disable the escape feature. I don't know how to actually use it to change the setting. I tried reading the Help but ....no help.

3) I could share a screenshot and I will try. But, the meshes are the most simple standard primitives like a box. converted to editable poly. AND....when doing a screen grab the cursor does not appear in the screen captured image. I would have to paint it in or find an image of one and paste it in.

Here is another issue to log. If you have a backup syncing device (western digital mycloud for instance), or are using a cloud backup service like idrive, or have the max scene file being saved to a drive on a network, THEN you will experience lot's of problems with saving scene file sand autobak saves. You will get error saving warnings and corrupt file warnings an d have to re-save repeatedly to actually get the scene to save. Not good. In my case, pause mycould syncing when working in Max and these problems go away about 98%. I have posted about this on this forum previously. None of the other software I use has this problem. Photoshop, Illustrator ACAD, Fusion etc., why only Max?

[hagen.deloss]

Hello @open-range

Thanks for taking such detailed notes on the behaviors within 3DS Max you are having trouble with! To make troubleshooting easier for everyone here, I would ask that you please post separate threads for any additional issues you are having with 3DS Max. That way the rest of the community can more easily search for solutions by topic! 

1. I do notice that the render dialogue box opens inactive, are you wanting to type into a certain field as soon as the render opens? What other specific dialogue boxes have you noticed that pop up inactive? Your workflow goals help me understand the desired solution and can additionally help me pass along the most relevant information.
2. I just tested my autobackup feature on a 240mb scene and didn't notice it saving, or any performance issues. The latency you are experiencing could possibly be because of the user-interruptible save, or a hardware issue, here are the suggested hardware specifications, and some additional information on hardware on this thread. Turning off the interruption feature like @Swordslayer suggested also sounds like a great tip! If you have any more information on this topic, I would love to compile as much as I can. 
3. It sounds like a video showing the behavior would be helpful, here is a gif of what chamfer/cursor looks like for me!

I hope this information helps, I will pass along what I can to development. In reply to your question about the listener tool It would very much help me if you could post further questions as separate threads. This isn't meant to sound dismissive, merely making sure the entire community is able to benefit from the troubleshooting process here on the forums.

Talk to you soon!

Please select the Accept as Solution button if my post solves your issue or answers your question.

[open-range]

Hagen, thanks for trying to help. Possibly read my previous post a bit more carefully.

1) as stated above the lack of focus problem also exists with the render progress dialog box.

2) it’s not a hardware problem. My specifics: 

Max 2019.1 | Win 10 | Core i7 6950 | GeForce 1060 | 64 G RAM

Please read my previous post. I am asking how to actually use the listener to disable the escape from auto back feature. Also I would like to point out that introducing the escape “feature” is what caused the autobak, which previously worked perfectly, to now have this huge time lag problem. Do you not test to see if your new “feature” has actually caused a problem with what was  previously working? Frustrating to have basic decade + old basic functionality screwed up by new features.

3) your not understanding my previous explanation. In your video the cursor turns to a  vertically oriented with double ended arrows while you are scrubbing he adjustment spinners. What I am saying is that after completing the edit, closing out of the edit sub-object mode, return to top level. The when mo invoice he cursor over the top main menu bar or the top bar of the control panel, or mat editor, or render dialog top menu.....  THE CURSOR REMAINS AS THE DOUBLE ENDED ARROW FROMTHE PREVIUSLY COMPLETED SUB-OBJECT POLY EDIT. WHEN HOVERING OUT IN AN EMPTY SPACE IN THE CIEWPORT IT IS THE NORMAL AND. ORRECT SINGLE SELECTION STYLE CURSOR. BUT WHEN MOVED OVER A MENU IT IS THAT INCORRRWCT HOLD OVER FROM USING HE SPINNERS INTHE EDIT POLY SUB-OBJECT. HIS DOES NOT HAPPEN IF ONLY ONE EDIT IS MADE. IT HAPPENS AT SOME UNKOWN INTEREVAL AFTER HAVING MADE A NUMBER OF SPINNER ADJUSTMENTS, LIKE YOU SHOW IN YOU VIDEO.

[open-range]

3) further clarification. Your video shows two different style curves. On the “standard” single arrow pointer. He other is the double arrow that appears when you are scrubbing the spinner in the caddy. That cursor remains on effect after closing out of and deselecting the editable poly. It appears on that style when hovering over a menu bar, main menu or dialog box menu. You have to do several, how many is unknown, of the edited before this starts to happen. It does not happen if you only do one n class out he editing. Must do several or more spinner adjustments but sooner, rather than later it happens. Happens every tome I do any minimal amount of this type of basic poly model adjustment like you show in your video.

[Swordslayer]

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@open-range wrote:

I would like to try using the Listener to set autoSave.BailoutEnabled=off. I am not familiar with using the Listener.

I enter autoSave.BailoutEnabled=off into the Listener and press Enter. It returns "false" in blue color. I try changing that to "true" but nothing seems to happen. How do I actually use the Listener to make this change? Thanks!

---

This is the correct behavior, it returns the state you set it to which is off/false. When trying to ESC-interrupt autoback, you should not be able to after that and it should be back to the legacy behavior (only the message in the prompt will still include 'Press ESC to interrupt').

---

@open-range wrote:

II would like to point out that introducing the escape “feature” is what caused the autobak, which previously worked perfectly, to now have this huge time lag problem. Do you not test to see if your new “feature” has actually caused a problem with what was previously working? Frustrating to have basic decade + old basic functionality screwed up by new features.

---

There used to be such a discrepancy between normal save and autosave way back to 2012 at the very least (I used to experience it all the time, we had a lot of 4-8 GB files at the time and saving manually right after autosave was for some reason so much faster...), but a few conditions had to be met - autosave folder not in the working directory, working directory on a network-attached storage, customized defaults for save options (like thumbnail and such - autosave never respected save settings from the preferences).

What actually changed with max 2018.4 is that there's additional caching of resolved paths to loading and saving files faster especially when it comes to network drives (the

Missing Server/Share Monitor that's watching paths in a separate thread from the main max thread).

[open-range]

Thank you for your ongoing and help Swordslayer.

I'm still a bit confused. I now understand how to use the Listener. I want to confirm, to disable the bailout using the esc key, the code in Listener should appear:

autoSave.BailoutEnabled=off

true

Your reply above, "This is the correct behavior, it returns the state you set it to which is off/false." suggests it should be:

autoSave.BailoutEnabled=off

false

Intuitively it seems to me that the value should be "true" so that that the autoSave.BailoutEnabled is in fact "off". Is that correct?

"(only the message in the prompt will still include 'Press ESC to interrupt')". I do not notice any prompt, where does this appear?

Once I set the value to what I want in the Listener, does that value remain in effect for all Max sessions going forward. Different scenes, new scenes etc?

Regarding my other point, My autobak folder is in the project path and that has always been my practice. No files are being saved outside of the project path. No NAS or other network used, no customized save preferences or etc. I maintain that autoBAK worked fine in default configurations up until this esc key "feature" was introduced. Providing this capability to those who want to use it is a fine idea, BUT NOT IF IT TOTALLY SCREWS UP THE FUNCTIONALITY OF THE autoBAK FOR EVERYONE ELSE THAT HAS BEEN USING IT WITHOUT TROUBLE FOR THE PAST 10 YEARS +. Sheeesh, don't they do this very basic level testing before inflicting this? In and of itself this may seem minor, but it is just one of many many basic UI functionalities that have stopped working correctly over the past few releases, while at the same time the price of the software has increased. Example - Crossing Window selection does not work consistently = WTF?!

[hagen.deloss]

Hello @open-range

Thanks for continuing to help document behavioral issues with the Autobak tool as well as the listener, I really appreciate it 😄

It sounds like @Swordslayer was able to help you figure out how to navigate the listener tool to some degree! That's awesome!

In regards to your feedback on the Autobak tool, it sounds like you have a lot of great points and critique to pass along, the newest versions of 3DS Max go through a fair amount of beta testing, it would be wonderful to get your opinion on subsequent releases! If you are interested, here is the beta sign up page.

If you still have suggestions and decide not to participate in the Beta program, you can still suggest feature changes on the Ideas forum, where users can vote on submitted suggestions. Feel free to post any feature changes or additions you feel would improve the software. Thanks again @open-range

Please select the Accept as Solution button if my post solves your issue or answers your question.