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Autodesk Forcing Rental

34 REPLIES 34
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Message 1 of 35
lightcube
2001 Views, 34 Replies

Autodesk Forcing Rental

So I think that the 3ds Max community needs to pay close attention to the fact that Autodesk is ending perpetual licenses.

 

I tested subscription on Mudbox 2015 to see if it was nice enough to upgrade Mudbox 2011. I did like some of the new features. And I let the subscription run for a couple months.

 

But after reading this, I cancelled my subscription.

 

I'll probably upgrade all of my software until the policy takes effect. Then ride out using Max/Mudbox until they stop working on the available versions of Windows. Maybe by then I'll be rich and have plenty of money to throw away on monthly subscription fees (a new utility bill) so that I can open my files I've been working on for years.

 

But that's not likely.

 

So, if Autodesk doesn't reverse this policy, I'll eventually move to Blender.

 

Autodesk, this is really a bad move. I really hope that your customers start responding with these same sentiments before it is too late. And I hope that for once you actually listen to us.



Shawn Olson

Developer of Wall Worm
3ds Max plugins and Scripts

3ds Max 4/Gmax - 3ds Max 2020
Mudbox 2009-2019

Windows 10 x64
i7 8700K
64GB RAM
Geforce 1080ti
34 REPLIES 34
Message 21 of 35
Anonymous
in reply to: lightcube

Yes... It seems like when my subscription runs out in January the price will jump from 500 to triple that... And perhaps equally important this will happen with NO additional features to the software.. Just the same promises we have heard since the last uproar.

I love Max, but it is absolutely not worth that price now that HOUDINI offers me a richer feature set in my areas of focus and not while development is still just a smile and a promise.

An earlier post said that most even if annoyed will be rooting for Autodesk to do well... I rooted for Max when it fought MAYA and others, and I always root for products I buy and use... But Max is now a rental... And just as they don't seem to care about me, I don't really care about them either... Mutual lack of loyalty... They are going a direction I don't like and poof... I am done
Message 22 of 35
dgorsman
in reply to: Anonymous

"Desktop Subscription" is what I normally refer to as their "rental-model" - it's more a more familiar term and less likely to cause confusion with Subscription service.  "Subscription" is the support service you get when you purchase AutoDesk licenses, including the rental-model/Desktop Subscription.  There are several levels with varying amounts of support e.g. the Advanced Subscription for the rental-model provides phone support while the Basic does not.  Desktop Subscription is also much newer, prior to a couple of years ago you had to purchase either a stand-alone license or network license which if you didn't renew the support contract would be considered one of those Perpetual licenses they want to clear up.

 

From my reading of the information, those who continue on Subscription (*not* Desktop Subscription) would be unaffected.  They are looking at a means of getting those who did not purchase Subscription or let it lapse onto the rental-model instead.  This could involve a change in how stand-alone licenses (as opposed to network licenses) work, or simply provide an upgrade path for those who want a newer version.  I can't see how or why network licensing would change, as those who use it typically have enough numbers to justify keeping up with version releases.

----------------------------------
If you are going to fly by the seat of your pants, expect friction burns.
"I don't know" is the beginning of knowledge, not the end.


Message 23 of 35
lightcube
in reply to: dgorsman

 Like you, I think that AD needs to clear up the issue. But it is clear from the PDF linked earlier that AD's plan is currently to move everyone to a rental-only model at a higher annual price than we currently pay (annually) to own our license upgrades via Subscription. At what timeframe this effects each customer is really irrelevant. Even if AD continues to let all legacy Subscription members continue the current Subscription model indefinitely, if it precludes future Subscription customers who can buy perpetual licenses, it is bad news for the consumer.

 

Here is the thing. All customers who are best served by the model of investing in perpetual licenses need to speak up loud and clear. If not, the future will go down a road that is not what we want.

 

The way it looks from the comments of Carl Bass "Three years from now it will be surprising to me if anybody is really running very much perpetual desktop software." (see source)  and this new marketing plan, I do not interpret the intentions as anything other than we will not be able to upgrade perpetual licenses after this policy goes into effect--except via the "upgrade" that means trade in your lifetime ownership for a lease.

 

The fact that AD will remove perpetual licenses instead of keeping them side-by-side with rental options means that their only real concern is to make the per-month user payment higher than what perpetual license sales/subscriptions brings in. It is irrelevant to that model what it means for any individual's ability to continue paying for and using the software so long as the number of users that month exceeds the existing monthly profits--which is the whole concern customers are having. At that point, your individual opinion loses even more sway, as well as your monetary loyalty, because now you are simply a renewable resource.



Shawn Olson

Developer of Wall Worm
3ds Max plugins and Scripts

3ds Max 4/Gmax - 3ds Max 2020
Mudbox 2009-2019

Windows 10 x64
i7 8700K
64GB RAM
Geforce 1080ti
Message 24 of 35
Anonymous
in reply to: lightcube

They should step and clarify, because I can't run a business with uncertainty and I am about to spend the money I would have used to renew to move to something else... As of right now the only data I have indicates they are boosting the price
Message 25 of 35
Anonymous
in reply to: lightcube

I've been told that we will be reducing the number of seats, and to look for an alternative in the long-term. Jacking up the prices and forcing us into subscription without any real improvements in the software is more than our financing department will tolerate.

 

It's a shame, I've been owned every version since the second DOS version, the thought of learning another piece of software fills me with dread, but I'll have to do it. I guess I'll be watching Blender videos on YouTube in the evenings for a while.

 

$0.02

 

 

Message 26 of 35
dgorsman
in reply to: Anonymous

Enjoy the UI.  I've found it to be rather "interesting" in places.  😄

----------------------------------
If you are going to fly by the seat of your pants, expect friction burns.
"I don't know" is the beginning of knowledge, not the end.


Message 27 of 35
Anonymous
in reply to: dgorsman

"Interesting" is being kind to it! Unfathomable is a word I'd be more inclined to use!

Message 28 of 35
jessica.t
in reply to: Anonymous

We are aware of multiple conversations regarding Autodesk’s ongoing business model transformation and move to Subscription.  In an effort to provide clarification, we would like to provide some specifics about changes in the sale of perpetual licenses    

 

- Over the next 12-24 months, Autodesk is planning to gradually  discontinue sales of NEW perpetual licenses, and will make NEW seats of our software available through Desktop and Cloud Subscription only

 

- Existing customers with perpetual seats will be able to continue using those products per the terms of those licenses.  Customers with perpetual licenses that are current with Autodesk Subscription will continue to benefit from product updates and other benefits of Autodesk Subscription.  

 

We recognize that these changes will impact our customers and that you will have many questions.  We plan to provide additional details about our plans as the information becomes available and will provide sufficient advance notice so you can plan for these changes.



Jessica Thrasher
Message 29 of 35
lightcube
in reply to: jessica.t

Thank you for sharing some information.

 

What this sounds like may make some of us on Autodesk Subscription (perpetual license) sigh some relief individually if this means that current Autodesk Subscription will continue to be offered to us legacy customers as long as we continue that.

 

But even so, it does not address the simple fact that the entire customer base is against this policy. The entire industry is fine that Autodesk offers rental as an option. But the policy change cannot be interpretted by any consumer as one that fosters trust in the company; furthermore, the pending policy unequivocally puts the consumer at a disadvantage over the long haul. How a business can publicly do something that literally frightens or insults the customers is very baffling.

 

The customers have been your customers because you have offered products that solve their needs for the price paid. I'm sure that many customers have taken pride in their ownership of your products. This policy change seriously handicaps that kind of relationship between the artist and your software.

 

Please send this message on up the chain. We want to pay you to build great things. But we also don't want to get strung along.



Shawn Olson

Developer of Wall Worm
3ds Max plugins and Scripts

3ds Max 4/Gmax - 3ds Max 2020
Mudbox 2009-2019

Windows 10 x64
i7 8700K
64GB RAM
Geforce 1080ti
Message 30 of 35
Anonymous
in reply to: lightcube

Here's an aspect of this that I would like to get clarified as soon as possible:

 

"Customers with perpetual licenses that are current with Autodesk Subscription will continue to benefit from product updates and other benefits of Autodesk Subscription"

 

Life with Autodesk has made me a bit paranoid, I'll admit....but does this mean that we will be able to RENEW subscription at a price comparable to what we have historically paid (in the U.S., in the neighborhood of 500USD)?

 

Because my own read of it leaves open the possibility that - yes, we WILL be allowed to continue to get updates for the near future, but that it is possible that the fee for subscription will be made to match the "Desktop subscription" rate that I have seen which is roughly triple what we've been paying to remain on subscription in past years.

 

There is nothing...repeat in caps - NOTHING, that Autodesk has done in terms of developing/improving Max that would justify even a 10% increase in subscription renewal pricing...a tripling is just insane.

 

I will agree with others in terms of distaste for this model, but while I DO appreciate any attempt to 'grandfather' in our ability to keep renewing, I am not sure how the pricing will impact that appreciation.

 

 

 

Message 31 of 35
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

TLDR version:  If the renewal rate is more than $600 I'm dropping you without a second thought.

Message 32 of 35
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Tinfoil hat time.....what if the executives at Autodesk are introducing rental primarily as a sneaky way to get around First Sale doctrine?  If you are renting the license, and there is nothing you are getting in any perpetual sense, then they could avoid situations like Vernor v. Autodesk...which they essentially won on appeal, but at any moment a court could rule (correctly) that you have the right to sell a thing that you bought.

 

With a rental, it might be more legally clear that what you have is a licensee/licensor relationship, and so they never have to worry about a secondary market, because when you pay them your money you get nothing that is 'real'.

 

Thank God for competition in the marketplace - it's an exciting age, and we might all get a chance to try new software.  Maybe without thinking it through they are forcing many of us to switch, and for a lot of us it might be a good change of pace.

 

 

 

Message 33 of 35
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Our Visual Designers are already looking into other applications. Rather then discussing the pricing, I'm already over it. We used 3D Studio Max since the beginning and we build up our 3D Designing around this software. After crippling max 2015 with the new navigation and seeing how people payed for v.2015 and 2 quarters along 2015, it's still crap to work with (for us - urban scenes).

 

Now this?... I seriously think it's time to wake people up from their farytale and look at what's happening with this product. Like other people mentioned, there's NO reason what-so-ever that they would increase pricing like this with the current develpment going on inside the product. Mainly I think this is due to the financial department not being involved in the works of the AD products. Ofc not, why would they, they're financial guys. We're going to start working with new software and simply chop off our 3D Studio Max branch if they activate this marketing scheme instead of waiting like a frog in a hot tank of water.

 

------

 

So, on another note: We're looking into Google Sketchup and Blender, can people who work in the ArchViz bussiness recommend other software they use? [non AD pls :))]

 

We also subscribed to digital tutors, we think it's a good place to start.

 

 

Message 34 of 35
dgorsman
in reply to: Anonymous

You're unlikely to see comments about future pricing.  In some cases it simply isn't known, in most cases it cannot be discussed without a non-disclosure agreement because it involves privileged information, and in all cases the numbers may need to change one way or the other due to unforeseen circumstances.

 

At the very least, there is now some credible AutoDesk-sourced information.  🙂

----------------------------------
If you are going to fly by the seat of your pants, expect friction burns.
"I don't know" is the beginning of knowledge, not the end.


Message 35 of 35
rjstrock
in reply to: dgorsman

I think what Autodesk is finding is that the software has reached a level where most users are satisfied and do not need to upgrade. Autodesk's solution: force people to pay subscriptions with minimal features added from time to time.

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