Placing a premade skeleton model into the right body position

[pompelj]

Hello.

I am working on some project where I'm supposed to move a 3d model of a skeleton into the right body position. My friend found a premade skeleton (https://www.cadnav.com/3d-models/model-51311.html) and I successfully put it into 3ds max program. I'm watching the videos on Youtube and exploring on forums, but I still don't know how to move particular bones into right position.

Thank you for anwsering!

Byebye 😊

[10DSpace]

@pompelj 

Is the skeleton a single editable mesh or are the individual bones separate objects and (hopefully) already linked into a hierarchy? There is a difference in the amount of work involved.  Either way is doable, but the steps will be different.  The good news is that you will learn a lot more if the skeleton is a single editable mesh or editable poly.

[10DSpace]

@pompelj 

I see from the file link you provided that the skeleton comes as 2 separate meshes, 1 for the ribcage and pelvis and the other for all of the remaining bones.   I think the simplest way to effectively position these bones in any pose, is  to:

1. Detach the individual bone elements of the mesh into separate bone objects.  In some cases this means grouping several bones together like those of the lower leg (see image below) because these bones rotate together in humans.  Fortunately, it  is easy to select these bones by selecting the element sub-object mode in the editable Mesh rollout and then left clicking on it; Ctrl + Left click to add more bones.

 

1. Position the pivot point for each bone at the joint where the bone rotates (e.g., the knee for  the lower leg.)  This is important to get right because Max uses the pivot point as the center of rotation.  You place the pivot point  by opening the Hierarchy Tab of the Command Panel and selecting “Affect Pivot Only”.  First center the pivot to the detached bone by clicking on “Center to Object” under Alignment and then use the transform the drag the pivot into position.  Click on “Affect Pivot Only” to disable it once you are done positioning it.  (See image below)

 

1. Once all bones have been detached into separate objects and their pivot points positioned correctly (i.e.,  the way human anatomy moves),  you need to set up a bone hierarchy so that if for example, you rotate the upper leg bone, the lower leg and foot will follow along.  Max has a command called “Select and Link” on the Main Toolbar which lets you do that.  Click on Select and link and click on the child bone and drag to it’s parent.  (See image below)  You want the foot bone to be the child of lower leg bone and the lower leg bone to be the child of the Upper leg bone and the upper leg bone to be the child of the Pelvis.  I have rotated the upper leg and the lower leg as an example of making a simple pose the image below.   The Pelvis should be the overall parent for your hierarchy; to get an idea of what the rest of the hierarchy you should create a Biped (Command Panel>Systems>Biped) in Max and examine the hierarchy of the bones of the biped.

 

Anyway, you need to perform the above steps process on the rest of the anatomy as well.   You didn’t say what pose you have to create, so I don’t know if you need to worry about individual fingers or toes or whether you can just make them part of the hands or feet.  (It’ll  save some work if you don’t need to individually create all the individual finger and toe joints).

 If you get stuck along the way, post your questions.

 

[pompelj]

Thanks for anwsering. I'm working on this project in stages. 

I managed to detach individual bones 🥳, next is pivot point!

The end position of the skeleton would be in certain pose (see pocture).

 (source https://www.bandhayoga.com/keys_psoas.html)

All the best 😊

Anže

[pompelj]

Hello

Till now I detached the bones of the right leg. For each bone I set the Pivot Point at the joint (at the hip, 3 at knee and 1 at ankle). I also set hierarchy starting at Pelvis_R (see picture attached). Should I do the same for Pelvis_L now? Also I would like to move leg fingers too (see pose on the picture attached). 
At Command Panel>Systems>Biped I should set the right numbers (like 5 fingers), because I don't know what I should really examine there. I found this picture
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Hierarchical-Bone-Structure-of-Biped-Character_fig1_275889499
about hierarchy for biped.

I also attached file "Skeleton_Pelvis_R_end.max" how my work is now.

Thank you for anwsering.

All the best,

Anže Jurc

[10DSpace]

@pompelj 

In real life, the pelvis (both left and right side) move together as a single unit, so you want the pelvis to be a single object.  The picture you show of the hierarchy also shows the pelvis as a single object.  So both the left leg and the right leg will have the Pelvis as the parent.  

"At Command Panel>Systems>Biped I should set the right numbers (like 5 fingers), because I don't know what I should really examine there. I found this picture"

I recommended that you look at the hierarchy of biped just as an example of the hierarchy you should create for your skeleton bones.  So setting the right number of fingers in the  At Command Panel>Systems>Biped has nothing to do with your skeleton model.   That command panel just affects any biped you create and you do not need biped to animate your skeleton.   I just wanted to correct any potential confusion you may have on this.  Please clarify if you want to do something beyond animating your skeleton (like creating a character mesh and skinning it, etc) as that is different from the scope of the project that you originally described. 

But getting back to fingers and toes, you will need to apply the same logic to your bone skeleton as you have for the parts of the leg you have completed.  Where normal human anatomy has joints that you want to rotate, you need to have separate bones with the pivots placed at their joints.  So if you want the flexibility to manipulate individual fingers for example, that would be 5 separate fingers, each of which has 3 separate joints (a total of 15 separate finger bones with individual pivots for each hand.  Also a separate pivot at the wrist for each hand.   Same logic for feet and toes.  Technically, I believe all of the toes except for the big toe have 3 joints; the big toe has 2 joints according to the link below: 

https://www.google.com/search?q=how+many+joints+should+toes+have&oq=how+many+toe+joints&aqs=chrome.3...

[pompelj]

Thanks for the reply 🙂

I belive, that the skeleton now has 5 separate bones for the pelvis (coccyx, Pelvis_L, Pelvis_R, sacrum02 and sympubis01). Would it be good to group these bones in one bone "Pelvis"? Also, each toe and finger is now 1 object which should be I think separated each into 3 separate bones (except big toe into 2). Is this ok?

"Please clarify if you want to do something beyond animating your skeleton (like creating a character mesh and skinning it, etc) as that is different from the scope of the project that you originally described."

I want just to place the skeleton into certain body position to use as a photo for exercise.

If I manage to do one side of whole skeleton correctly (detach the bones, place Pivot Points, separate toe and finger bones), could then I just do [select the side that is done] - [Tools] - [Mirror] - (Transform, Mirror Axis: x, Offset - place correctly, Clone Selection: Copy, Mirror IK Limits and press OK)?

All the best 😌

[10DSpace]

@pompelj 

"I belive, that the skeleton now has 5 separate bones for the pelvis (coccyx, Pelvis_L, Pelvis_R, sacrum02 and sympubis01). Would it be good to group these bones in one bone "Pelvis"?"

Yes, exactly. You should attach them together to be 1 object using "Attach" in Edit Mesh or Edit poly rollout.

"Also, each toe and finger is now 1 object which should be I think separated each into 3 separate bones (except big toe into 2). Is this ok?"

Yes, exactly.

"If I manage to do one side of whole skeleton correctly (detach the bones, place Pivot Points, separate toe and finger bones), could then I just do [select the side that is done] - [Tools] - [Mirror] - (Transform, Mirror Axis: x, Offset - place correctly, Clone Selection: Copy, Mirror IK Limits and press OK)?"

Yes, but you have to make sure that the currently active pivot is in the center of the body when you mirror the bones or the mirrored bones will not be in the correct place.   I suggest you use the working pivot by first editing it to be in the center of the pelvis and then click the check mark and then "Use Working Pivot" as shown below. 

After the mirror operation is complete,  switch coordinate system back to Local for subsequent rotation of bones to create poses.    Also keep in mind that you don't want to mirror all of the bones, for example the pelvis, the ribcage, the spine , neck and head don't need to be mirrored.  

[pompelj]

Hi.

I am trying to seperate each finger/toe into seperate objects. Is this hard work, and since I don't have any experience with this, would it be better to buy a skeleton model (such as this?), which maybe already has fingers/toes in seperate objects?

Thanks for the reply 😃

[10DSpace]

@pompelj 

Sure you can do that but how do you know the fingers and toes are separate objects with 3 separate joints each and their pivots placed in the right spot?  The link you provided does not provide that detail in the description as far as I could see.

[pompelj]

Hi.

I found https://www.cadnav.com/3d-models/model-42464.html skeleton that has toe and finger bones seperated. In downloaded folder there are D0901D07.ma and D0901D07.obj files. Is there any difficulty if I open .obj file in 3ds Max and also, when I open and import this file in 3ds Max it says OBJ Import Summaries > Material "gu_ge_bone2" not found & Material "gu_ge_glgrey" not found. Is this ok? 

Thank you!

Anže

[10DSpace]

@pompelj 

.obj is fine.  Don't worry about not getting the material for your purposes.  You can just apply your own material in max if you want.

[pompelj]

Hi. I managed to move left leg. Thank you for all support 10DSpace.